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ΠΟΛΙΤΙΚΟΣ
Plato. Platonis Opera, ed. John Burnet. Oxford University Press. 1903. 
STATESMAN By Plato
Translated by Benjamin Jowett

INTRODUCTION AND ANALYSIS.

In the Phaedrus, the Republic, the Philebus, the Parmenides, and the Sophist, we may observe the tendency of Plato to combine two or more subjects or different aspects of the same subject in a single dialogue. In the Sophist and Statesman especially we note that the discussion is partly regarded as an illustration of method, and that analogies are brought from afar which throw light on the main subject. And in his later writings generally we further remark a decline of style, and of dramatic power; the characters excite little or no interest, and the digressions are apt to overlay the main thesis; there is not the 'callida junctura' of an artistic whole. Both the serious discussions and the jests are sometimes out of place. The invincible Socrates is withdrawn from view; and new foes begin to appear under old names. Plato is now chiefly concerned, not with the original Sophist, but with the sophistry of the schools of philosophy, which are making reasoning impossible; and is driven by them out of the regions of transcendental speculation back into the path of common sense. A logical or psychological phase takes the place of the doctrine of Ideas in his mind. He is constantly dwelling on the importance of regular classification, and of not putting words in the place of things. He has banished the poets, and is beginning to use a technical language. He is bitter and satirical, and seems to be sadly conscious of the realities of human life. Yet the ideal glory of the Platonic philosophy is not extinguished. He is still looking for a city in which kings are either philosophers or gods (compare Laws).

The Statesman has lost the grace and beauty of the earlier dialogues. The mind of the writer seems to be so overpowered in the effort of thought as to impair his style; at least his gift of expression does not keep up with the increasing difficulty of his theme. The idea of the king or statesman and the illustration of method are connected, not like the love and rhetoric of the Phaedrus, by 'little invisible pegs,' but in a confused and inartistic manner, which fails to produce any impression of a whole on the mind of the reader. Plato apologizes for his tediousness, and acknowledges that the improvement of his audience has been his only aim in some of his digressions. His own image may be used as a motto of his style: like an inexpert statuary he has made the figure or outline too large, and is unable to give the proper colours or proportions to his work. He makes mistakes only to correct them--this seems to be his way of drawing attention to common dialectical errors. The Eleatic stranger, here, as in the Sophist, has no appropriate character, and appears only as the expositor of a political ideal, in the delineation of which he is frequently interrupted by purely logical illustrations. The younger Socrates resembles his namesake in nothing but a name. The dramatic character is so completely forgotten, that a special reference is twice made to discussions in the Sophist; and this, perhaps, is the strongest ground which can be urged for doubting the genuineness of the work. But, when we remember that a similar allusion is made in the Laws to the Republic, we see that the entire disregard of dramatic propriety is not always a sufficient reason for doubting the genuineness of a Platonic writing.

The search after the Statesman, which is carried on, like that for the Sophist, by the method of dichotomy, gives an opportunity for many humorous and satirical remarks. Several of the jests are mannered and laboured: for example, the turn of words with which the dialogue opens; or the clumsy joke about man being an animal, who has a power of two-feet--both which are suggested by the presence of Theodorus, the geometrician. There is political as well as logical insight in refusing to admit the division of mankind into Hellenes and Barbarians: 'if a crane could speak, he would in like manner oppose men and all other animals to cranes.' The pride of the Hellene is further humbled, by being compared to a Phrygian or Lydian. Plato glories in this impartiality of the dialectical method, which places birds in juxtaposition with men, and the king side by side with the bird-catcher; king or vermin-destroyer are objects of equal interest to science (compare Parmen.). There are other passages which show that the irony of Socrates was a lesson which Plato was not slow in learning--as, for example, the passing remark, that 'the kings and statesmen of our day are in their breeding and education very like their subjects;' or the anticipation that the rivals of the king will be found in the class of servants; or the imposing attitude of the priests, who are the established interpreters of the will of heaven, authorized by law. Nothing is more bitter in all his writings than his comparison of the contemporary politicians to lions, centaurs, satyrs, and other animals of a feebler sort, who are ever changing their forms and natures. But, as in the later dialogues generally, the play of humour and the charm of poetry have departed, never to return.

Still the Politicus contains a higher and more ideal conception of politics than any other of Plato's writings. The city of which there is a pattern in heaven (Republic), is here described as a Paradisiacal state of human society. In the truest sense of all, the ruler is not man but God; and such a government existed in a former cycle of human history, and may again exist when the gods resume their care of mankind. In a secondary sense, the true form of government is that which has scientific rulers, who are irresponsible to their subjects. Not power but knowledge is the characteristic of a king or royal person. And the rule of a man is better and higher than law, because he is more able to deal with the infinite complexity of human affairs. But mankind, in despair of finding a true ruler, are willing to acquiesce in any law or custom which will save them from the caprice of individuals. They are ready to accept any of the six forms of government which prevail in the world. To the Greek, nomos was a sacred word, but the political idealism of Plato soars into a region beyond; for the laws he would substitute the intelligent will of the legislator. Education is originally to implant in men's minds a sense of truth and justice, which is the divine bond of states, and the legislator is to contrive human bonds, by which dissimilar natures may be united in marriage and supply the deficiencies of one another. As in the Republic, the government of philosophers, the causes of the perversion of states, the regulation of marriages, are still the political problems with which Plato's mind is occupied. He treats them more slightly, partly because the dialogue is shorter, and also because the discussion of them is perpetually crossed by the other interest of dialectic, which has begun to absorb him.

The plan of the Politicus or Statesman may be briefly sketched as follows: (1) By a process of division and subdivision we discover the true herdsman or king of men. But before we can rightly distinguish him from his rivals, we must view him, (2) as he is presented to us in a famous ancient tale: the tale will also enable us to distinguish the divine from the human herdsman or shepherd: (3) and besides our fable, we must have an example; for our example we will select the art of weaving, which will have to be distinguished from the kindred arts; and then, following this pattern, we will separate the king from his subordinates or competitors. (4) But are we not exceeding all due limits; and is there not a measure of all arts and sciences, to which the art of discourse must conform? There is; but before we can apply this measure, we must know what is the aim of discourse: and our discourse only aims at the dialectical improvement of ourselves and others.--Having made our apology, we return once more to the king or statesman, and proceed to contrast him with pretenders in the same line with him, under their various forms of government. (5) His characteristic is, that he alone has science, which is superior to law and written enactments; these do but spring out of the necessities of mankind, when they are in despair of finding the true king. (6) The sciences which are most akin to the royal are the sciences of the general, the judge, the orator, which minister to him, but even these are subordinate to him. (7) Fixed principles are implanted by education, and the king or statesman completes the political web by marrying together dissimilar natures, the courageous and the temperate, the bold and the gentle, who are the warp and the woof of society.

The outline may be filled up as follows:--

SOCRATES:
I have reason to thank you, Theodorus, for the acquaintance of Theaetetus and the Stranger.

THEODORUS:
And you will have three times as much reason to thank me when they have delineated the Statesman and Philosopher, as well as the Sophist.

SOCRATES:
Does the great geometrician apply the same measure to all three? Are they not divided by an interval which no geometrical ratio can express?

THEODORUS:
By the god Ammon, Socrates, you are right; and I am glad to see that you have not forgotten your geometry. But before I retaliate on you, I must request the Stranger to finish the argument...

The Stranger suggests that Theaetetus shall be allowed to rest, and that Socrates the younger shall respond in his place; Theodorus agrees to the suggestion, and Socrates remarks that the name of the one and the face of the other give him a right to claim relationship with both of them. They propose to take the Statesman after the Sophist; his path they must determine, and part off all other ways, stamping upon them a single negative form (compare Soph.).

The Stranger begins the enquiry by making a division of the arts and sciences into theoretical and practical--the one kind concerned with knowledge exclusively, and the other with action; arithmetic and the mathematical sciences are examples of the former, and carpentering and handicraft arts of the latter (compare Philebus). Under which of the two shall we place the Statesman? Or rather, shall we not first ask, whether the king, statesman, master, householder, practise one art or many? As the adviser of a physician may be said to have medical science and to be a physician, so the adviser of a king has royal science and is a king. And the master of a large household may be compared to the ruler of a small state. Hence we conclude that the science of the king, statesman, and householder is one and the same. And this science is akin to knowledge rather than to action. For a king rules with his mind, and not with his hands.

But theoretical science may be a science either of judging, like arithmetic, or of ruling and superintending, like that of the architect or master-builder. And the science of the king is of the latter nature; but the power which he exercises is underived and uncontrolled,--a characteristic which distinguishes him from heralds, prophets, and other inferior officers. He is the wholesale dealer in command, and the herald, or other officer, retails his commands to others. Again, a ruler is concerned with the production of some object, and objects may be divided into living and lifeless, and rulers into the rulers of living and lifeless objects. And the king is not like the master-builder, concerned with lifeless matter, but has the task of managing living animals. And the tending of living animals may be either a tending of individuals, or a managing of herds. And the Statesman is not a groom, but a herdsman, and his art may be called either the art of managing a herd, or the art of collective management:--Which do you prefer? 'No matter.' Very good, Socrates, and if you are not too particular about words you will be all the richer some day in true wisdom. But how would you subdivide the herdsman's art? 'I should say, that there is one management of men, and another of beasts.' Very good, but you are in too great a hurry to get to man. All divisions which are rightly made should cut through the middle; if you attend to this rule, you will be more likely to arrive at classes. 'I do not understand the nature of my mistake.' Your division was like a division of the human race into Hellenes and Barbarians, or into Lydians or Phrygians and all other nations, instead of into male and female; or like a division of number into ten thousand and all other numbers, instead of into odd and even. And I should like you to observe further, that though I maintain a class to be a part, there is no similar necessity for a part to be a class. But to return to your division, you spoke of men and other animals as two classes--the second of which you comprehended under the general name of beasts. This is the sort of division which an intelligent crane would make: he would put cranes into a class by themselves for their special glory, and jumble together all others, including man, in the class of beasts. An error of this kind can only be avoided by a more regular subdivision. Just now we divided the whole class of animals into gregarious and non-gregarious, omitting the previous division into tame and wild. We forgot this in our hurry to arrive at man, and found by experience, as the proverb says, that 'the more haste the worse speed.'

And now let us begin again at the art of managing herds. You have probably heard of the fish-preserves in the Nile and in the ponds of the Great King, and of the nurseries of geese and cranes in Thessaly. These suggest a new division into the rearing or management of land-herds and of water-herds:--I need not say with which the king is concerned. And land-herds may be divided into walking and flying; and every idiot knows that the political animal is a pedestrian. At this point we may take a longer or a shorter road, and as we are already near the end, I see no harm in taking the longer, which is the way of mesotomy, and accords with the principle which we were laying down. The tame, walking, herding animal, may be divided into two classes--the horned and the hornless, and the king is concerned with the hornless; and these again may be subdivided into animals having or not having cloven feet, or mixing or not mixing the breed; and the king or statesman has the care of animals which have not cloven feet, and which do not mix the breed. And now, if we omit dogs, who can hardly be said to herd, I think that we have only two species left which remain undivided: and how are we to distinguish them? To geometricians, like you and Theaetetus, I can have no difficulty in explaining that man is a diameter, having a power of two feet; and the power of four-legged creatures, being the double of two feet, is the diameter of our diameter. There is another excellent jest which I spy in the two remaining species. Men and birds are both bipeds, and human beings are running a race with the airiest and freest of creation, in which they are far behind their competitors;--this is a great joke, and there is a still better in the juxtaposition of the bird-taker and the king, who may be seen scampering after them. For, as we remarked in discussing the Sophist, the dialectical method is no respecter of persons. But we might have proceeded, as I was saying, by another and a shorter road. In that case we should have begun by dividing land animals into bipeds and quadrupeds, and bipeds into winged and wingless; we should than have taken the Statesman and set him over the 'bipes implume,' and put the reins of government into his hands.

Here let us sum up:--The science of pure knowledge had a part which was the science of command, and this had a part which was a science of wholesale command; and this was divided into the management of animals, and was again parted off into the management of herds of animals, and again of land animals, and these into hornless, and these into bipeds; and so at last we arrived at man, and found the political and royal science. And yet we have not clearly distinguished the political shepherd from his rivals. No one would think of usurping the prerogatives of the ordinary shepherd, who on all hands is admitted to be the trainer, matchmaker, doctor, musician of his flock. But the royal shepherd has numberless competitors, from whom he must be distinguished; there are merchants, husbandmen, physicians, who will all dispute his right to manage the flock. I think that we can best distinguish him by having recourse to a famous old tradition, which may amuse as well as instruct us; the narrative is perfectly true, although the scepticism of mankind is prone to doubt the tales of old. You have heard what happened in the quarrel of Atreus and Thyestes? 'You mean about the golden lamb?' No, not that; but another part of the story, which tells how the sun and stars once arose in the west and set in the east, and that the god reversed their motion, as a witness to the right of Atreus. 'There is such a story.' And no doubt you have heard of the empire of Cronos, and of the earthborn men? The origin of these and the like stories is to be found in the tale which I am about to narrate.

There was a time when God directed the revolutions of the world, but at the completion of a certain cycle he let go; and the world, by a necessity of its nature, turned back, and went round the other way. For divine things alone are unchangeable; but the earth and heavens, although endowed with many glories, have a body, and are therefore liable to perturbation. In the case of the world, the perturbation is very slight, and amounts only to a reversal of motion. For the lord of moving things is alone self-moved; neither can piety allow that he goes at one time in one direction and at another time in another; or that God has given the universe opposite motions; or that there are two gods, one turning it in one direction, another in another. But the truth is, that there are two cycles of the world, and in one of them it is governed by an immediate Providence, and receives life and immortality, and in the other is let go again, and has a reverse action during infinite ages. This new action is spontaneous, and is due to exquisite perfection of balance, to the vast size of the universe, and to the smallness of the pivot upon which it turns. All changes in the heaven affect the animal world, and this being the greatest of them, is most destructive to men and animals. At the beginning of the cycle before our own very few of them had survived; and on these a mighty change passed. For their life was reversed like the motion of the world, and first of all coming to a stand then quickly returned to youth and beauty. The white locks of the aged became black; the cheeks of the bearded man were restored to their youth and fineness; the young men grew softer and smaller, and, being reduced to the condition of children in mind as well as body, began to vanish away; and the bodies of those who had died by violence, in a few moments underwent a parallel change and disappeared. In that cycle of existence there was no such thing as the procreation of animals from one another, but they were born of the earth, and of this our ancestors, who came into being immediately after the end of the last cycle and at the beginning of this, have preserved the recollection. Such traditions are often now unduly discredited, and yet they may be proved by internal evidence. For observe how consistent the narrative is; as the old returned to youth, so the dead returned to life; the wheel of their existence having been reversed, they rose again from the earth: a few only were reserved by God for another destiny. Such was the origin of the earthborn men.

'And is this cycle, of which you are speaking, the reign of Cronos, or our present state of existence?' No, Socrates, that blessed and spontaneous life belongs not to this, but to the previous state, in which God was the governor of the whole world, and other gods subject to him ruled over parts of the world, as is still the case in certain places. They were shepherds of men and animals, each of them sufficing for those of whom he had the care. And there was no violence among them, or war, or devouring of one another. Their life was spontaneous, because in those days God ruled over man; and he was to man what man is now to the animals. Under his government there were no estates, or private possessions, or families; but the earth produced a sufficiency of all things, and men were born out of the earth, having no traditions of the past; and as the temperature of the seasons was mild, they took no thought for raiment, and had no beds, but lived and dwelt in the open air.

Such was the age of Cronos, and the age of Zeus is our own. Tell me, which is the happier of the two? Or rather, shall I tell you that the happiness of these children of Cronos must have depended on how they used their time? If having boundless leisure, and the power of discoursing not only with one another but with the animals, they had employed these advantages with a view to philosophy, gathering from every nature some addition to their store of knowledge;--or again, if they had merely eaten and drunk, and told stories to one another, and to the beasts;--in either case, I say, there would be no difficulty in answering the question. But as nobody knows which they did, the question must remain unanswered. And here is the point of my tale. In the fulness of time, when the earthborn men had all passed away, the ruler of the universe let go the helm, and became a spectator; and destiny and natural impulse swayed the world. At the same instant all the inferior deities gave up their hold; the whole universe rebounded, and there was a great earthquake, and utter ruin of all manner of animals. After a while the tumult ceased, and the universal creature settled down in his accustomed course, having authority over all other creatures, and following the instructions of his God and Father, at first more precisely, afterwards with less exactness. The reason of the falling off was the disengagement of a former chaos; 'a muddy vesture of decay' was a part of his original nature, out of which he was brought by his Creator, under whose immediate guidance, while he remained in that former cycle, the evil was minimized and the good increased to the utmost. And in the beginning of the new cycle all was well enough, but as time went on, discord entered in; at length the good was minimized and the evil everywhere diffused, and there was a danger of universal ruin. Then the Creator, seeing the world in great straits, and fearing that chaos and infinity would come again, in his tender care again placed himself at the helm and restored order, and made the world immortal and imperishable. Once more the cycle of life and generation was reversed; the infants grew into young men, and the young men became greyheaded; no longer did the animals spring out of the earth; as the whole world was now lord of its own progress, so the parts were to be self-created and self-nourished. At first the case of men was very helpless and pitiable; for they were alone among the wild beasts, and had to carry on the struggle for existence without arts or knowledge, and had no food, and did not know how to get any. That was the time when Prometheus brought them fire, Hephaestus and Athene taught them arts, and other gods gave them seeds and plants. Out of these human life was framed; for mankind were left to themselves, and ordered their own ways, living, like the universe, in one cycle after one manner, and in another cycle after another manner.

Enough of the myth, which may show us two errors of which we were guilty in our account of the king. The first and grand error was in choosing for our king a god, who belongs to the other cycle, instead of a man from our own; there was a lesser error also in our failure to define the nature of the royal functions. The myth gave us only the image of a divine shepherd, whereas the statesmen and kings of our own day very much resemble their subjects in education and breeding. On retracing our steps we find that we gave too narrow a designation to the art which was concerned with command-for-self over living creatures, when we called it the 'feeding' of animals in flocks. This would apply to all shepherds, with the exception of the Statesman; but if we say 'managing' or 'tending' animals, the term would include him as well. Having remodelled the name, we may subdivide as before, first separating the human from the divine shepherd or manager. Then we may subdivide the human art of governing into the government of willing and unwilling subjects--royalty and tyranny--which are the extreme opposites of one another, although we in our simplicity have hitherto confounded them.

And yet the figure of the king is still defective. We have taken up a lump of fable, and have used more than we needed. Like statuaries, we have made some of the features out of proportion, and shall lose time in reducing them. Or our mythus may be compared to a picture, which is well drawn in outline, but is not yet enlivened by colour. And to intelligent persons language is, or ought to be, a better instrument of description than any picture. 'But what, Stranger, is the deficiency of which you speak?' No higher truth can be made clear without an example; every man seems to know all things in a dream, and to know nothing when he is awake. And the nature of example can only be illustrated by an example. Children are taught to read by being made to compare cases in which they do not know a certain letter with cases in which they know it, until they learn to recognize it in all its combinations. Example comes into use when we identify something unknown with that which is known, and form a common notion of both of them. Like the child who is learning his letters, the soul recognizes some of the first elements of things; and then again is at fault and unable to recognize them when they are translated into the difficult language of facts. Let us, then, take an example, which will illustrate the nature of example, and will also assist us in characterizing the political science, and in separating the true king from his rivals.

I will select the example of weaving, or, more precisely, weaving of wool. In the first place, all possessions are either productive or preventive; of the preventive sort are spells and antidotes, divine and human, and also defences, and defences are either arms or screens, and screens are veils and also shields against heat and cold, and shields against heat and cold are shelters and coverings, and coverings are blankets or garments, and garments are in one piece or have many parts; and of these latter, some are stitched and others are fastened, and of these again some are made of fibres of plants and some of hair, and of these some are cemented with water and earth, and some are fastened with their own material; the latter are called clothes, and are made by the art of clothing, from which the art of weaving differs only in name, as the political differs from the royal science. Thus we have drawn several distinctions, but as yet have not distinguished the weaving of garments from the kindred and co-operative arts. For the first process to which the material is subjected is the opposite of weaving--I mean carding. And the art of carding, and the whole art of the fuller and the mender, are concerned with the treatment and production of clothes, as well as the art of weaving. Again, there are the arts which make the weaver's tools. And if we say that the weaver's art is the greatest and noblest of those which have to do with woollen garments,--this, although true, is not sufficiently distinct; because these other arts require to be first cleared away. Let us proceed, then, by regular steps:--There are causal or principal, and co-operative or subordinate arts. To the causal class belong the arts of washing and mending, of carding and spinning the threads, and the other arts of working in wool; these are chiefly of two kinds, falling under the two great categories of composition and division. Carding is of the latter sort. But our concern is chiefly with that part of the art of wool-working which composes, and of which one kind twists and the other interlaces the threads, whether the firmer texture of the warp or the looser texture of the woof. These are adapted to each other, and the orderly composition of them forms a woollen garment. And the art which presides over these operations is the art of weaving.

But why did we go through this circuitous process, instead of saying at once that weaving is the art of entwining the warp and the woof? In order that our labour may not seem to be lost, I must explain the whole nature of excess and defect. There are two arts of measuring--one is concerned with relative size, and the other has reference to a mean or standard of what is meet. The difference between good and evil is the difference between a mean or measure and excess or defect. All things require to be compared, not only with one another, but with the mean, without which there would be no beauty and no art, whether the art of the statesman or the art of weaving or any other; for all the arts guard against excess or defect, which are real evils. This we must endeavour to show, if the arts are to exist; and the proof of this will be a harder piece of work than the demonstration of the existence of not-being which we proved in our discussion about the Sophist. At present I am content with the indirect proof that the existence of such a standard is necessary to the existence of the arts. The standard or measure, which we are now only applying to the arts, may be some day required with a view to the demonstration of absolute truth.

We may now divide this art of measurement into two parts; placing in the one part all the arts which measure the relative size or number of objects, and in the other all those which depend upon a mean or standard. Many accomplished men say that the art of measurement has to do with all things, but these persons, although in this notion of theirs they may very likely be right, are apt to fail in seeing the differences of classes--they jumble together in one the 'more' and the 'too much,' which are very different things. Whereas the right way is to find the differences of classes, and to comprehend the things which have any affinity under the same class.

I will make one more observation by the way. When a pupil at a school is asked the letters which make up a particular word, is he not asked with a view to his knowing the same letters in all words? And our enquiry about the Statesman in like manner is intended not only to improve our knowledge of politics, but our reasoning powers generally. Still less would any one analyze the nature of weaving for its own sake. There is no difficulty in exhibiting sensible images, but the greatest and noblest truths have no outward form adapted to the eye of sense, and are only revealed in thought. And all that we are now saying is said for the sake of them. I make these remarks, because I want you to get rid of any impression that our discussion about weaving and about the reversal of the universe, and the other discussion about the Sophist and not-being, were tedious and irrelevant. Please to observe that they can only be fairly judged when compared with what is meet; and yet not with what is meet for producing pleasure, nor even meet for making discoveries, but for the great end of developing the dialectical method and sharpening the wits of the auditors. He who censures us, should prove that, if our words had been fewer, they would have been better calculated to make men dialecticians.

And now let us return to our king or statesman, and transfer to him the example of weaving. The royal art has been separated from that of other herdsmen, but not from the causal and co-operative arts which exist in states; these do not admit of dichotomy, and therefore they must be carved neatly, like the limbs of a victim, not into more parts than are necessary. And first (1) we have the large class of instruments, which includes almost everything in the world; from these may be parted off (2) vessels which are framed for the preservation of things, moist or dry, prepared in the fire or out of the fire. The royal or political art has nothing to do with either of these, any more than with the arts of making (3) vehicles, or (4) defences, whether dresses, or arms, or walls, or (5) with the art of making ornaments, whether pictures or other playthings, as they may be fitly called, for they have no serious use. Then (6) there are the arts which furnish gold, silver, wood, bark, and other materials, which should have been put first; these, again, have no concern with the kingly science; any more than the arts (7) which provide food and nourishment for the human body, and which furnish occupation to the husbandman, huntsman, doctor, cook, and the like, but not to the king or statesman. Further, there are small things, such as coins, seals, stamps, which may with a little violence be comprehended in one of the above-mentioned classes. Thus they will embrace every species of property with the exception of animals,--but these have been already included in the art of tending herds. There remains only the class of slaves or ministers, among whom I expect that the real rivals of the king will be discovered. I am not speaking of the veritable slave bought with money, nor of the hireling who lets himself out for service, nor of the trader or merchant, who at best can only lay claim to economical and not to royal science. Nor am I referring to government officials, such as heralds and scribes, for these are only the servants of the rulers, and not the rulers themselves. I admit that there may be something strange in any servants pretending to be masters, but I hardly think that I could have been wrong in supposing that the principal claimants to the throne will be of this class. Let us try once more: There are diviners and priests, who are full of pride and prerogative; these, as the law declares, know how to give acceptable gifts to the gods, and in many parts of Hellas the duty of performing solemn sacrifices is assigned to the chief magistrate, as at Athens to the King Archon. At last, then, we have found a trace of those whom we were seeking. But still they are only servants and ministers.

And who are these who next come into view in various forms of men and animals and other monsters appearing--lions and centaurs and satyrs--who are these? I did not know them at first, for every one looks strange when he is unexpected. But now I recognize the politician and his troop, the chief of Sophists, the prince of charlatans, the most accomplished of wizards, who must be carefully distinguished from the true king or statesman. And here I will interpose a question: What are the true forms of government? Are they not three--monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy? and the distinctions of freedom and compulsion, law and no law, poverty and riches expand these three into six. Monarchy may be divided into royalty and tyranny; oligarchy into aristocracy and plutocracy; and democracy may observe the law or may not observe it. But are any of these governments worthy of the name? Is not government a science, and are we to suppose that scientific government is secured by the rulers being many or few, rich or poor, or by the rule being compulsory or voluntary? Can the many attain to science? In no Hellenic city are there fifty good draught players, and certainly there are not as many kings, for by kings we mean all those who are possessed of the political science. A true government must therefore be the government of one, or of a few. And they may govern us either with or without law, and whether they are poor or rich, and however they govern, provided they govern on some scientific principle,--it makes no difference. And as the physician may cure us with our will, or against our will, and by any mode of treatment, burning, bleeding, lowering, fattening, if he only proceeds scientifically: so the true governor may reduce or fatten or bleed the body corporate, while he acts according to the rules of his art, and with a view to the good of the state, whether according to law or without law.

'I do not like the notion, that there can be good government without law.'

I must explain: Law-making certainly is the business of a king; and yet the best thing of all is, not that the law should rule, but that the king should rule, for the varieties of circumstances are endless, and no simple or universal rule can suit them all, or last for ever. The law is just an ignorant brute of a tyrant, who insists always on his commands being fulfilled under all circumstances. 'Then why have we laws at all?' I will answer that question by asking you whether the training master gives a different discipline to each of his pupils, or whether he has a general rule of diet and exercise which is suited to the constitutions of the majority? 'The latter.' The legislator, too, is obliged to lay down general laws, and cannot enact what is precisely suitable to each particular case. He cannot be sitting at every man's side all his life, and prescribe for him the minute particulars of his duty, and therefore he is compelled to impose on himself and others the restriction of a written law. Let me suppose now, that a physician or trainer, having left directions for his patients or pupils, goes into a far country, and comes back sooner than he intended; owing to some unexpected change in the weather, the patient or pupil seems to require a different mode of treatment: Would he persist in his old commands, under the idea that all others are noxious and heterodox? Viewed in the light of science, would not the continuance of such regulations be ridiculous? And if the legislator, or another like him, comes back from a far country, is he to be prohibited from altering his own laws? The common people say: Let a man persuade the city first, and then let him impose new laws. But is a physician only to cure his patients by persuasion, and not by force? Is he a worse physician who uses a little gentle violence in effecting the cure? Or shall we say, that the violence is just, if exercised by a rich man, and unjust, if by a poor man? May not any man, rich or poor, with or without law, and whether the citizens like or not, do what is for their good? The pilot saves the lives of the crew, not by laying down rules, but by making his art a law, and, like him, the true governor has a strength of art which is superior to the law. This is scientific government, and all others are imitations only. Yet no great number of persons can attain to this science. And hence follows an important result. The true political principle is to assert the inviolability of the law, which, though not the best thing possible, is best for the imperfect condition of man.

I will explain my meaning by an illustration:--Suppose that mankind, indignant at the rogueries and caprices of physicians and pilots, call together an assembly, in which all who like may speak, the skilled as well as the unskilled, and that in their assembly they make decrees for regulating the practice of navigation and medicine which are to be binding on these professions for all time. Suppose that they elect annually by vote or lot those to whom authority in either department is to be delegated. And let us further imagine, that when the term of their magistracy has expired, the magistrates appointed by them are summoned before an ignorant and unprofessional court, and may be condemned and punished for breaking the regulations. They even go a step further, and enact, that he who is found enquiring into the truth of navigation and medicine, and is seeking to be wise above what is written, shall be called not an artist, but a dreamer, a prating Sophist and a corruptor of youth; and if he try to persuade others to investigate those sciences in a manner contrary to the law, he shall be punished with the utmost severity. And like rules might be extended to any art or science. But what would be the consequence?

'The arts would utterly perish, and human life, which is bad enough already, would become intolerable.'

But suppose, once more, that we were to appoint some one as the guardian of the law, who was both ignorant and interested, and who perverted the law: would not this be a still worse evil than the other? 'Certainly.' For the laws are based on some experience and wisdom. Hence the wiser course is, that they should be observed, although this is not the best thing of all, but only the second best. And whoever, having skill, should try to improve them, would act in the spirit of the law-giver. But then, as we have seen, no great number of men, whether poor or rich, can be makers of laws. And so, the nearest approach to true government is, when men do nothing contrary to their own written laws and national customs. When the rich preserve their customs and maintain the law, this is called aristocracy, or if they neglect the law, oligarchy. When an individual rules according to law, whether by the help of science or opinion, this is called monarchy; and when he has royal science he is a king, whether he be so in fact or not; but when he rules in spite of law, and is blind with ignorance and passion, he is called a tyrant. These forms of government exist, because men despair of the true king ever appearing among them; if he were to appear, they would joyfully hand over to him the reins of government. But, as there is no natural ruler of the hive, they meet together and make laws. And do we wonder, when the foundation of politics is in the letter only, at the miseries of states? Ought we not rather to admire the strength of the political bond? For cities have endured the worst of evils time out of mind; many cities have been shipwrecked, and some are like ships foundering, because their pilots are absolutely ignorant of the science which they profess.

Let us next ask, which of these untrue forms of government is the least bad, and which of them is the worst? I said at the beginning, that each of the three forms of government, royalty, aristocracy, and democracy, might be divided into two, so that the whole number of them, including the best, will be seven. Under monarchy we have already distinguished royalty and tyranny; of oligarchy there were two kinds, aristocracy and plutocracy; and democracy may also be divided, for there is a democracy which observes, and a democracy which neglects, the laws. The government of one is the best and the worst--the government of a few is less bad and less good--the government of the many is the least bad and least good of them all, being the best of all lawless governments, and the worst of all lawful ones. But the rulers of all these states, unless they have knowledge, are maintainers of idols, and themselves idols--wizards, and also Sophists; for, after many windings, the term 'Sophist' comes home to them.

And now enough of centaurs and satyrs: the play is ended, and they may quit the political stage. Still there remain some other and better elements, which adhere to the royal science, and must be drawn off in the refiner's fire before the gold can become quite pure. The arts of the general, the judge, and the orator, will have to be separated from the royal art; when the separation has been made, the nature of the king will be unalloyed. Now there are inferior sciences, such as music and others; and there is a superior science, which determines whether music is to be learnt or not, and this is different from them, and the governor of them. The science which determines whether we are to use persuasion, or not, is higher than the art of persuasion; the science which determines whether we are to go to war, is higher than the art of the general. The science which makes the laws, is higher than that which only administers them. And the science which has this authority over the rest, is the science of the king or statesman.

Once more we will endeavour to view this royal science by the light of our example. We may compare the state to a web, and I will show you how the different threads are drawn into one. You would admit--would you not?--that there are parts of virtue (although this position is sometimes assailed by Eristics), and one part of virtue is temperance, and another courage. These are two principles which are in a manner antagonistic to one another; and they pervade all nature; the whole class of the good and beautiful is included under them. The beautiful may be subdivided into two lesser classes: one of these is described by us in terms expressive of motion or energy, and the other in terms expressive of rest and quietness. We say, how manly! how vigorous! how ready! and we say also, how calm! how temperate! how dignified! This opposition of terms is extended by us to all actions, to the tones of the voice, the notes of music, the workings of the mind, the characters of men. The two classes both have their exaggerations; and the exaggerations of the one are termed 'hardness,' 'violence,' 'madness;' of the other 'cowardliness,' or 'sluggishness.' And if we pursue the enquiry, we find that these opposite characters are naturally at variance, and can hardly be reconciled. In lesser matters the antagonism between them is ludicrous, but in the State may be the occasion of grave disorders, and may disturb the whole course of human life. For the orderly class are always wanting to be at peace, and hence they pass imperceptibly into the condition of slaves; and the courageous sort are always wanting to go to war, even when the odds are against them, and are soon destroyed by their enemies. But the true art of government, first preparing the material by education, weaves the two elements into one, maintaining authority over the carders of the wool, and selecting the proper subsidiary arts which are necessary for making the web. The royal science is queen of educators, and begins by choosing the natures which she is to train, punishing with death and exterminating those who are violently carried away to atheism and injustice, and enslaving those who are wallowing in the mire of ignorance. The rest of the citizens she blends into one, combining the stronger element of courage, which we may call the warp, with the softer element of temperance, which we may imagine to be the woof. These she binds together, first taking the eternal elements of the honourable, the good, and the just, and fastening them with a divine cord in a heaven-born nature, and then fastening the animal elements with a human cord. The good legislator can implant by education the higher principles; and where they exist there is no difficulty in inserting the lesser human bonds, by which the State is held together; these are the laws of intermarriage, and of union for the sake of offspring. Most persons in their marriages seek after wealth or power; or they are clannish, and choose those who are like themselves,--the temperate marrying the temperate, and the courageous the courageous. The two classes thrive and flourish at first, but they soon degenerate; the one become mad, and the other feeble and useless. This would not have been the case, if they had both originally held the same notions about the honourable and the good; for then they never would have allowed the temperate natures to be separated from the courageous, but they would have bound them together by common honours and reputations, by intermarriages, and by the choice of rulers who combine both qualities. The temperate are careful and just, but are wanting in the power of action; the courageous fall short of them in justice, but in action are superior to them: and no state can prosper in which either of these qualities is wanting. The noblest and best of all webs or states is that which the royal science weaves, combining the two sorts of natures in a single texture, and in this enfolding freeman and slave and every other social element, and presiding over them all.

'Your picture, Stranger, of the king and statesman, no less than of the Sophist, is quite perfect.'

...

The principal subjects in the Statesman may be conveniently embraced under six or seven heads:--(1) the myth; (2) the dialectical interest; (3) the political aspects of the dialogue; (4) the satirical and paradoxical vein; (5) the necessary imperfection of law; (6) the relation of the work to the other writings of Plato; lastly (7), we may briefly consider the genuineness of the Sophist and Statesman, which can hardly be assumed without proof, since the two dialogues have been questioned by three such eminent Platonic scholars as Socher, Schaarschmidt, and Ueberweg.

I. The hand of the master is clearly visible in the myth. First in the connection with mythology;--he wins a kind of verisimilitude for this as for his other myths, by adopting received traditions, of which he pretends to find an explanation in his own larger conception (compare Introduction to Critias). The young Socrates has heard of the sun rising in the west and setting in the east, and of the earth-born men; but he has never heard the origin of these remarkable phenomena. Nor is Plato, here or elsewhere, wanting in denunciations of the incredulity of 'this latter age,' on which the lovers of the marvellous have always delighted to enlarge. And he is not without express testimony to the truth of his narrative;--such testimony as, in the Timaeus, the first men gave of the names of the gods ('They must surely have known their own ancestors'). For the first generation of the new cycle, who lived near the time, are supposed to have preserved a recollection of a previous one. He also appeals to internal evidence, viz. the perfect coherence of the tale, though he is very well aware, as he says in the Cratylus, that there may be consistency in error as well as in truth. The gravity and minuteness with which some particulars are related also lend an artful aid. The profound interest and ready assent of the young Socrates, who is not too old to be amused 'with a tale which a child would love to hear,' are a further assistance. To those who were naturally inclined to believe that the fortunes of mankind are influenced by the stars, or who maintained that some one principle, like the principle of the Same and the Other in the Timaeus, pervades all things in the world, the reversal of the motion of the heavens seemed necessarily to produce a reversal of the order of human life. The spheres of knowledge, which to us appear wide asunder as the poles, astronomy and medicine, were naturally connected in the minds of early thinkers, because there was little or nothing in the space between them. Thus there is a basis of philosophy, on which the improbabilities of the tale may be said to rest. These are some of the devices by which Plato, like a modern novelist, seeks to familiarize the marvellous.

The myth, like that of the Timaeus and Critias, is rather historical than poetical, in this respect corresponding to the general change in the later writings of Plato, when compared with the earlier ones. It is hardly a myth in the sense in which the term might be applied to the myth of the Phaedrus, the Republic, the Phaedo, or the Gorgias, but may be more aptly compared with the didactic tale in which Protagoras describes the fortunes of primitive man, or with the description of the gradual rise of a new society in the Third Book of the Laws. Some discrepancies may be observed between the mythology of the Statesman and the Timaeus, and between the Timaeus and the Republic. But there is no reason to expect that all Plato's visions of a former, any more than of a future, state of existence, should conform exactly to the same pattern. We do not find perfect consistency in his philosophy; and still less have we any right to demand this of him in his use of mythology and figures of speech. And we observe that while employing all the resources of a writer of fiction to give credibility to his tales, he is not disposed to insist upon their literal truth. Rather, as in the Phaedo, he says, 'Something of the kind is true;' or, as in the Gorgias, 'This you will think to be an old wife's tale, but you can think of nothing truer;' or, as in the Statesman, he describes his work as a 'mass of mythology,' which was introduced in order to teach certain lessons; or, as in the Phaedrus, he secretly laughs at such stories while refusing to disturb the popular belief in them.

The greater interest of the myth consists in the philosophical lessons which Plato presents to us in this veiled form. Here, as in the tale of Er, the son of Armenius, he touches upon the question of freedom and necessity, both in relation to God and nature. For at first the universe is governed by the immediate providence of God,--this is the golden age,--but after a while the wheel is reversed, and man is left to himself. Like other theologians and philosophers, Plato relegates his explanation of the problem to a transcendental world; he speaks of what in modern language might be termed 'impossibilities in the nature of things,' hindering God from continuing immanent in the world. But there is some inconsistency; for the 'letting go' is spoken of as a divine act, and is at the same time attributed to the necessary imperfection of matter; there is also a numerical necessity for the successive births of souls. At first, man and the world retain their divine instincts, but gradually degenerate. As in the Book of Genesis, the first fall of man is succeeded by a second; the misery and wickedness of the world increase continually. The reason of this further decline is supposed to be the disorganisation of matter: the latent seeds of a former chaos are disengaged, and envelope all things. The condition of man becomes more and more miserable; he is perpetually waging an unequal warfare with the beasts. At length he obtains such a measure of education and help as is necessary for his existence. Though deprived of God's help, he is not left wholly destitute; he has received from Athene and Hephaestus a knowledge of the arts; other gods give him seeds and plants; and out of these human life is reconstructed. He now eats bread in the sweat of his brow, and has dominion over the animals, subjected to the conditions of his nature, and yet able to cope with them by divine help. Thus Plato may be said to represent in a figure--(1) the state of innocence; (2) the fall of man; (3) the still deeper decline into barbarism; (4) the restoration of man by the partial interference of God, and the natural growth of the arts and of civilised society. Two lesser features of this description should not pass unnoticed:--(1) the primitive men are supposed to be created out of the earth, and not after the ordinary manner of human generation--half the causes of moral evil are in this way removed; (2) the arts are attributed to a divine revelation: and so the greatest difficulty in the history of pre-historic man is solved. Though no one knew better than Plato that the introduction of the gods is not a reason, but an excuse for not giving a reason (Cratylus), yet, considering that more than two thousand years later mankind are still discussing these problems, we may be satisfied to find in Plato a statement of the difficulties which arise in conceiving the relation of man to God and nature, without expecting to obtain from him a solution of them. In such a tale, as in the Phaedrus, various aspects of the Ideas were doubtless indicated to Plato's own mind, as the corresponding theological problems are to us. The immanence of things in the Ideas, or the partial separation of them, and the self-motion of the supreme Idea, are probably the forms in which he would have interpreted his own parable.

He touches upon another question of great interest--the consciousness of evil--what in the Jewish Scriptures is called 'eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.' At the end of the narrative, the Eleatic asks his companion whether this life of innocence, or that which men live at present, is the better of the two. He wants to distinguish between the mere animal life of innocence, the 'city of pigs,' as it is comically termed by Glaucon in the Republic, and the higher life of reason and philosophy. But as no one can determine the state of man in the world before the Fall, 'the question must remain unanswered.' Similar questions have occupied the minds of theologians in later ages; but they can hardly be said to have found an answer. Professor Campbell well observes, that the general spirit of the myth may be summed up in the words of the Lysis: 'If evil were to perish, should we hunger any more, or thirst any more, or have any similar sensations? Yet perhaps the question what will or will not be is a foolish one, for who can tell?' As in the Theaetetus, evil is supposed to continue,--here, as the consequence of a former state of the world, a sort of mephitic vapour exhaling from some ancient chaos,--there, as involved in the possibility of good, and incident to the mixed state of man.

Once more--and this is the point of connexion with the rest of the dialogue--the myth is intended to bring out the difference between the ideal and the actual state of man. In all ages of the world men have dreamed of a state of perfection, which has been, and is to be, but never is, and seems to disappear under the necessary conditions of human society. The uselessness, the danger, the true value of such political ideals have often been discussed; youth is too ready to believe in them; age to disparage them. Plato's 'prudens quaestio' respecting the comparative happiness of men in this and in a former cycle of existence is intended to elicit this contrast between the golden age and 'the life under Zeus' which is our own. To confuse the divine and human, or hastily apply one to the other, is a 'tremendous error.' Of the ideal or divine government of the world we can form no true or adequate conception; and this our mixed state of life, in which we are partly left to ourselves, but not wholly deserted by the gods, may contain some higher elements of good and knowledge than could have existed in the days of innocence under the rule of Cronos. So we may venture slightly to enlarge a Platonic thought which admits of a further application to Christian theology. Here are suggested also the distinctions between God causing and permitting evil, and between his more and less immediate government of the world.

II. The dialectical interest of the Statesman seems to contend in Plato's mind with the political; the dialogue might have been designated by two equally descriptive titles--either the 'Statesman,' or 'Concerning Method.' Dialectic, which in the earlier writings of Plato is a revival of the Socratic question and answer applied to definition, is now occupied with classification; there is nothing in which he takes greater delight than in processes of division (compare Phaedr.); he pursues them to a length out of proportion to his main subject, and appears to value them as a dialectical exercise, and for their own sake. A poetical vision of some order or hierarchy of ideas or sciences has already been floating before us in the Symposium and the Republic. And in the Phaedrus this aspect of dialectic is further sketched out, and the art of rhetoric is based on the division of the characters of mankind into their several classes. The same love of divisions is apparent in the Gorgias. But in a well-known passage of the Philebus occurs the first criticism on the nature of classification. There we are exhorted not to fall into the common error of passing from unity to infinity, but to find the intermediate classes; and we are reminded that in any process of generalization, there may be more than one class to which individuals may be referred, and that we must carry on the process of division until we have arrived at the infima species.

These precepts are not forgotten, either in the Sophist or in the Statesman. The Sophist contains four examples of division, carried on by regular steps, until in four different lines of descent we detect the Sophist. In the Statesman the king or statesman is discovered by a similar process; and we have a summary, probably made for the first time, of possessions appropriated by the labour of man, which are distributed into seven classes. We are warned against preferring the shorter to the longer method;--if we divide in the middle, we are most likely to light upon species; at the same time, the important remark is made, that 'a part is not to be confounded with a class.' Having discovered the genus under which the king falls, we proceed to distinguish him from the collateral species. To assist our imagination in making this separation, we require an example. The higher ideas, of which we have a dreamy knowledge, can only be represented by images taken from the external world. But, first of all, the nature of example is explained by an example. The child is taught to read by comparing the letters in words which he knows with the same letters in unknown combinations; and this is the sort of process which we are about to attempt. As a parallel to the king we select the worker in wool, and compare the art of weaving with the royal science, trying to separate either of them from the inferior classes to which they are akin. This has the incidental advantage, that weaving and the web furnish us with a figure of speech, which we can afterwards transfer to the State.

There are two uses of examples or images--in the first place, they suggest thoughts--secondly, they give them a distinct form. In the infancy of philosophy, as in childhood, the language of pictures is natural to man: truth in the abstract is hardly won, and only by use familiarized to the mind. Examples are akin to analogies, and have a reflex influence on thought; they people the vacant mind, and may often originate new directions of enquiry. Plato seems to be conscious of the suggestiveness of imagery; the general analogy of the arts is constantly employed by him as well as the comparison of particular arts--weaving, the refining of gold, the learning to read, music, statuary, painting, medicine, the art of the pilot--all of which occur in this dialogue alone: though he is also aware that 'comparisons are slippery things,' and may often give a false clearness to ideas. We shall find, in the Philebus, a division of sciences into practical and speculative, and into more or less speculative: here we have the idea of master-arts, or sciences which control inferior ones. Besides the supreme science of dialectic, 'which will forget us, if we forget her,' another master-science for the first time appears in view--the science of government, which fixes the limits of all the rest. This conception of the political or royal science as, from another point of view, the science of sciences, which holds sway over the rest, is not originally found in Aristotle, but in Plato.

The doctrine that virtue and art are in a mean, which is familiarized to us by the study of the Nicomachean Ethics, is also first distinctly asserted in the Statesman of Plato. The too much and the too little are in restless motion: they must be fixed by a mean, which is also a standard external to them. The art of measuring or finding a mean between excess and defect, like the principle of division in the Phaedrus, receives a particular application to the art of discourse. The excessive length of a discourse may be blamed; but who can say what is excess, unless he is furnished with a measure or standard? Measure is the life of the arts, and may some day be discovered to be the single ultimate principle in which all the sciences are contained. Other forms of thought may be noted--the distinction between causal and co-operative arts, which may be compared with the distinction between primary and co-operative causes in the Timaeus; or between cause and condition in the Phaedo; the passing mention of economical science; the opposition of rest and motion, which is found in all nature; the general conception of two great arts of composition and division, in which are contained weaving, politics, dialectic; and in connexion with the conception of a mean, the two arts of measuring.

In the Theaetetus, Plato remarks that precision in the use of terms, though sometimes pedantic, is sometimes necessary. Here he makes the opposite reflection, that there may be a philosophical disregard of words. The evil of mere verbal oppositions, the requirement of an impossible accuracy in the use of terms, the error of supposing that philosophy was to be found in language, the danger of word-catching, have frequently been discussed by him in the previous dialogues, but nowhere has the spirit of modern inductive philosophy been more happily indicated than in the words of the Statesman:--'If you think more about things, and less about words, you will be richer in wisdom as you grow older.' A similar spirit is discernible in the remarkable expressions, 'the long and difficult language of facts;' and 'the interrogation of every nature, in order to obtain the particular contribution of each to the store of knowledge.' Who has described 'the feeble intelligence of all things; given by metaphysics better than the Eleatic Stranger in the words--'The higher ideas can hardly be set forth except through the medium of examples; every man seems to know all things in a kind of dream, and then again nothing when he is awake?' Or where is the value of metaphysical pursuits more truly expressed than in the words,--'The greatest and noblest things have no outward image of themselves visible to man: therefore we should learn to give a rational account of them?'

III. The political aspects of the dialogue are closely connected with the dialectical. As in the Cratylus, the legislator has 'the dialectician standing on his right hand;' so in the Statesman, the king or statesman is the dialectician, who, although he may be in a private station, is still a king. Whether he has the power or not, is a mere accident; or rather he has the power, for what ought to be is ('Was ist vernunftig, das ist wirklich'); and he ought to be and is the true governor of mankind. There is a reflection in this idealism of the Socratic 'Virtue is knowledge;' and, without idealism, we may remark that knowledge is a great part of power. Plato does not trouble himself to construct a machinery by which 'philosophers shall be made kings,' as in the Republic: he merely holds up the ideal, and affirms that in some sense science is really supreme over human life.

He is struck by the observation 'quam parva sapientia regitur mundus,' and is touched with a feeling of the ills which afflict states. The condition of Megara before and during the Peloponnesian War, of Athens under the Thirty and afterwards, of Syracuse and the other Sicilian cities in their alternations of democratic excess and tyranny, might naturally suggest such reflections. Some states he sees already shipwrecked, others foundering for want of a pilot; and he wonders not at their destruction, but at their endurance. For they ought to have perished long ago, if they had depended on the wisdom of their rulers. The mingled pathos and satire of this remark is characteristic of Plato's later style.

The king is the personification of political science. And yet he is something more than this,--the perfectly good and wise tyrant of the Laws, whose will is better than any law. He is the special providence who is always interfering with and regulating all things. Such a conception has sometimes been entertained by modern theologians, and by Plato himself, of the Supreme Being. But whether applied to Divine or to human governors the conception is faulty for two reasons, neither of which are noticed by Plato:--first, because all good government supposes a degree of co-operation in the ruler and his subjects,--an 'education in politics' as well as in moral virtue; secondly, because government, whether Divine or human, implies that the subject has a previous knowledge of the rules under which he is living. There is a fallacy, too, in comparing unchangeable laws with a personal governor. For the law need not necessarily be an 'ignorant and brutal tyrant,' but gentle and humane, capable of being altered in the spirit of the legislator, and of being administered so as to meet the cases of individuals. Not only in fact, but in idea, both elements must remain--the fixed law and the living will; the written word and the spirit; the principles of obligation and of freedom; and their applications whether made by law or equity in particular cases.

There are two sides from which positive laws may be attacked:--either from the side of nature, which rises up and rebels against them in the spirit of Callicles in the Gorgias; or from the side of idealism, which attempts to soar above them,--and this is the spirit of Plato in the Statesman. But he soon falls, like Icarus, and is content to walk instead of flying; that is, to accommodate himself to the actual state of human things. Mankind have long been in despair of finding the true ruler; and therefore are ready to acquiesce in any of the five or six received forms of government as better than none. And the best thing which they can do (though only the second best in reality), is to reduce the ideal state to the conditions of actual life. Thus in the Statesman, as in the Laws, we have three forms of government, which we may venture to term, (1) the ideal, (2) the practical, (3) the sophistical--what ought to be, what might be, what is. And thus Plato seems to stumble, almost by accident, on the notion of a constitutional monarchy, or of a monarchy ruling by laws.

The divine foundations of a State are to be laid deep in education (Republic), and at the same time some little violence may be used in exterminating natures which are incapable of education (compare Laws). Plato is strongly of opinion that the legislator, like the physician, may do men good against their will (compare Gorgias). The human bonds of states are formed by the inter-marriage of dispositions adapted to supply the defects of each other. As in the Republic, Plato has observed that there are opposite natures in the world, the strong and the gentle, the courageous and the temperate, which, borrowing an expression derived from the image of weaving, he calls the warp and the woof of human society. To interlace these is the crowning achievement of political science. In the Protagoras, Socrates was maintaining that there was only one virtue, and not many: now Plato is inclined to think that there are not only parallel, but opposite virtues, and seems to see a similar opposition pervading all art and nature. But he is satisfied with laying down the principle, and does not inform us by what further steps the union of opposites is to be effected.

In the loose framework of a single dialogue Plato has thus combined two distinct subjects--politics and method. Yet they are not so far apart as they appear: in his own mind there was a secret link of connexion between them. For the philosopher or dialectician is also the only true king or statesman. In the execution of his plan Plato has invented or distinguished several important forms of thought, and made incidentally many valuable remarks. Questions of interest both in ancient and modern politics also arise in the course of the dialogue, which may with advantage be further considered by us:--

a. The imaginary ruler, whether God or man, is above the law, and is a law to himself and to others. Among the Greeks as among the Jews, law was a sacred name, the gift of God, the bond of states. But in the Statesman of Plato, as in the New Testament, the word has also become the symbol of an imperfect good, which is almost an evil. The law sacrifices the individual to the universal, and is the tyranny of the many over the few (compare Republic). It has fixed rules which are the props of order, and will not swerve or bend in extreme cases. It is the beginning of political society, but there is something higher--an intelligent ruler, whether God or man, who is able to adapt himself to the endless varieties of circumstances. Plato is fond of picturing the advantages which would result from the union of the tyrant who has power with the legislator who has wisdom: he regards this as the best and speediest way of reforming mankind. But institutions cannot thus be artificially created, nor can the external authority of a ruler impose laws for which a nation is unprepared. The greatest power, the highest wisdom, can only proceed one or two steps in advance of public opinion. In all stages of civilization human nature, after all our efforts, remains intractable,--not like clay in the hands of the potter, or marble under the chisel of the sculptor. Great changes occur in the history of nations, but they are brought about slowly, like the changes in the frame of nature, upon which the puny arm of man hardly makes an impression. And, speaking generally, the slowest growths, both in nature and in politics, are the most permanent.

b. Whether the best form of the ideal is a person or a law may fairly be doubted. The former is more akin to us: it clothes itself in poetry and art, and appeals to reason more in the form of feeling: in the latter there is less danger of allowing ourselves to be deluded by a figure of speech. The ideal of the Greek state found an expression in the deification of law: the ancient Stoic spoke of a wise man perfect in virtue, who was fancifully said to be a king; but neither they nor Plato had arrived at the conception of a person who was also a law. Nor is it easy for the Christian to think of God as wisdom, truth, holiness, and also as the wise, true, and holy one. He is always wanting to break through the abstraction and interrupt the law, in order that he may present to himself the more familiar image of a divine friend. While the impersonal has too slender a hold upon the affections to be made the basis of religion, the conception of a person on the other hand tends to degenerate into a new kind of idolatry. Neither criticism nor experience allows us to suppose that there are interferences with the laws of nature; the idea is inconceivable to us and at variance with facts. The philosopher or theologian who could realize to mankind that a person is a law, that the higher rule has no exception, that goodness, like knowledge, is also power, would breathe a new religious life into the world.

c. Besides the imaginary rule of a philosopher or a God, the actual forms of government have to be considered. In the infancy of political science, men naturally ask whether the rule of the many or of the few is to be preferred. If by 'the few' we mean 'the good' and by 'the many,' 'the bad,' there can be but one reply: 'The rule of one good man is better than the rule of all the rest, if they are bad.' For, as Heracleitus says, 'One is ten thousand if he be the best.' If, however, we mean by the rule of the few the rule of a class neither better nor worse than other classes, not devoid of a feeling of right, but guided mostly by a sense of their own interests, and by the rule of the many the rule of all classes, similarly under the influence of mixed motives, no one would hesitate to answer--'The rule of all rather than one, because all classes are more likely to take care of all than one of another; and the government has greater power and stability when resting on a wider basis.' Both in ancient and modern times the best balanced form of government has been held to be the best; and yet it should not be so nicely balanced as to make action and movement impossible.

The statesman who builds his hope upon the aristocracy, upon the middle classes, upon the people, will probably, if he have sufficient experience of them, conclude that all classes are much alike, and that one is as good as another, and that the liberties of no class are safe in the hands of the rest. The higher ranks have the advantage in education and manners, the middle and lower in industry and self-denial; in every class, to a certain extent, a natural sense of right prevails, sometimes communicated from the lower to the higher, sometimes from the higher to the lower, which is too strong for class interests. There have been crises in the history of nations, as at the time of the Crusades or the Reformation, or the French Revolution, when the same inspiration has taken hold of whole peoples, and permanently raised the sense of freedom and justice among mankind.

But even supposing the different classes of a nation, when viewed impartially, to be on a level with each other in moral virtue, there remain two considerations of opposite kinds which enter into the problem of government. Admitting of course that the upper and lower classes are equal in the eye of God and of the law, yet the one may be by nature fitted to govern and the other to be governed. A ruling caste does not soon altogether lose the governing qualities, nor a subject class easily acquire them. Hence the phenomenon so often observed in the old Greek revolutions, and not without parallel in modern times, that the leaders of the democracy have been themselves of aristocratic origin. The people are expecting to be governed by representatives of their own, but the true man of the people either never appears, or is quickly altered by circumstances. Their real wishes hardly make themselves felt, although their lower interests and prejudices may sometimes be flattered and yielded to for the sake of ulterior objects by those who have political power. They will often learn by experience that the democracy has become a plutocracy. The influence of wealth, though not the enjoyment of it, has become diffused among the poor as well as among the rich; and society, instead of being safer, is more at the mercy of the tyrant, who, when things are at the worst, obtains a guard--that is, an army--and announces himself as the saviour.

The other consideration is of an opposite kind. Admitting that a few wise men are likely to be better governors than the unwise many, yet it is not in their power to fashion an entire people according to their behest. When with the best intentions the benevolent despot begins his regime, he finds the world hard to move. A succession of good kings has at the end of a century left the people an inert and unchanged mass. The Roman world was not permanently improved by the hundred years of Hadrian and the Antonines. The kings of Spain during the last century were at least equal to any contemporary sovereigns in virtue and ability. In certain states of the world the means are wanting to render a benevolent power effectual. These means are not a mere external organisation of posts or telegraphs, hardly the introduction of new laws or modes of industry. A change must be made in the spirit of a people as well as in their externals. The ancient legislator did not really take a blank tablet and inscribe upon it the rules which reflection and experience had taught him to be for a nation's interest; no one would have obeyed him if he had. But he took the customs which he found already existing in a half-civilised state of society: these he reduced to form and inscribed on pillars; he defined what had before been undefined, and gave certainty to what was uncertain. No legislation ever sprang, like Athene, in full power out of the head either of God or man.

Plato and Aristotle are sensible of the difficulty of combining the wisdom of the few with the power of the many. According to Plato, he is a physician who has the knowledge of a physician, and he is a king who has the knowledge of a king. But how the king, one or more, is to obtain the required power, is hardly at all considered by him. He presents the idea of a perfect government, but except the regulation for mixing different tempers in marriage, he never makes any provision for the attainment of it. Aristotle, casting aside ideals, would place the government in a middle class of citizens, sufficiently numerous for stability, without admitting the populace; and such appears to have been the constitution which actually prevailed for a short time at Athens--the rule of the Five Thousand--characterized by Thucydides as the best government of Athens which he had known. It may however be doubted how far, either in a Greek or modern state, such a limitation is practicable or desirable; for those who are left outside the pale will always be dangerous to those who are within, while on the other hand the leaven of the mob can hardly affect the representation of a great country. There is reason for the argument in favour of a property qualification; there is reason also in the arguments of those who would include all and so exhaust the political situation.

The true answer to the question is relative to the circumstances of nations. How can we get the greatest intelligence combined with the greatest power? The ancient legislator would have found this question more easy than we do. For he would have required that all persons who had a share of government should have received their education from the state and have borne her burdens, and should have served in her fleets and armies. But though we sometimes hear the cry that we must 'educate the masses, for they are our masters,' who would listen to a proposal that the franchise should be confined to the educated or to those who fulfil political duties? Then again, we know that the masses are not our masters, and that they are more likely to become so if we educate them. In modern politics so many interests have to be consulted that we are compelled to do, not what is best, but what is possible.

d. Law is the first principle of society, but it cannot supply all the wants of society, and may easily cause more evils than it cures. Plato is aware of the imperfection of law in failing to meet the varieties of circumstances: he is also aware that human life would be intolerable if every detail of it were placed under legal regulation. It may be a great evil that physicians should kill their patients or captains cast away their ships, but it would be a far greater evil if each particular in the practice of medicine or seamanship were regulated by law. Much has been said in modern times about the duty of leaving men to themselves, which is supposed to be the best way of taking care of them. The question is often asked, What are the limits of legislation in relation to morals? And the answer is to the same effect, that morals must take care of themselves. There is a one-sided truth in these answers, if they are regarded as condemnations of the interference with commerce in the last century or of clerical persecution in the Middle Ages. But 'laissez-faire' is not the best but only the second best. What the best is, Plato does not attempt to determine; he only contrasts the imperfection of law with the wisdom of the perfect ruler.

Laws should be just, but they must also be certain, and we are obliged to sacrifice something of their justice to their certainty. Suppose a wise and good judge, who paying little or no regard to the law, attempted to decide with perfect justice the cases that were brought before him. To the uneducated person he would appear to be the ideal of a judge. Such justice has been often exercised in primitive times, or at the present day among eastern rulers. But in the first place it depends entirely on the personal character of the judge. He may be honest, but there is no check upon his dishonesty, and his opinion can only be overruled, not by any principle of law, but by the opinion of another judging like himself without law. In the second place, even if he be ever so honest, his mode of deciding questions would introduce an element of uncertainty into human life; no one would know beforehand what would happen to him, or would seek to conform in his conduct to any rule of law. For the compact which the law makes with men, that they shall be protected if they observe the law in their dealings with one another, would have to be substituted another principle of a more general character, that they shall be protected by the law if they act rightly in their dealings with one another. The complexity of human actions and also the uncertainty of their effects would be increased tenfold. For one of the principal advantages of law is not merely that it enforces honesty, but that it makes men act in the same way, and requires them to produce the same evidence of their acts. Too many laws may be the sign of a corrupt and overcivilized state of society, too few are the sign of an uncivilized one; as soon as commerce begins to grow, men make themselves customs which have the validity of laws. Even equity, which is the exception to the law, conforms to fixed rules and lies for the most part within the limits of previous decisions.

IV. The bitterness of the Statesman is characteristic of Plato's later style, in which the thoughts of youth and love have fled away, and we are no longer tended by the Muses or the Graces. We do not venture to say that Plato was soured by old age, but certainly the kindliness and courtesy of the earlier dialogues have disappeared. He sees the world under a harder and grimmer aspect: he is dealing with the reality of things, not with visions or pictures of them: he is seeking by the aid of dialectic only, to arrive at truth. He is deeply impressed with the importance of classification: in this alone he finds the true measure of human things; and very often in the process of division curious results are obtained. For the dialectical art is no respecter of persons: king and vermin-taker are all alike to the philosopher. There may have been a time when the king was a god, but he now is pretty much on a level with his subjects in breeding and education. Man should be well advised that he is only one of the animals, and the Hellene in particular should be aware that he himself was the author of the distinction between Hellene and Barbarian, and that the Phrygian would equally divide mankind into Phrygians and Barbarians, and that some intelligent animal, like a crane, might go a step further, and divide the animal world into cranes and all other animals. Plato cannot help laughing (compare Theaet.) when he thinks of the king running after his subjects, like the pig-driver or the bird-taker. He would seriously have him consider how many competitors there are to his throne, chiefly among the class of serving-men. A good deal of meaning is lurking in the expression--'There is no art of feeding mankind worthy the name.' There is a similar depth in the remark,--'The wonder about states is not that they are short-lived, but that they last so long in spite of the badness of their rulers.'

V. There is also a paradoxical element in the Statesman which delights in reversing the accustomed use of words. The law which to the Greek was the highest object of reverence is an ignorant and brutal tyrant--the tyrant is converted into a beneficent king. The sophist too is no longer, as in the earlier dialogues, the rival of the statesman, but assumes his form. Plato sees that the ideal of the state in his own day is more and more severed from the actual. From such ideals as he had once formed, he turns away to contemplate the decline of the Greek cities which were far worse now in his old age than they had been in his youth, and were to become worse and worse in the ages which followed. He cannot contain his disgust at the contemporary statesmen, sophists who had turned politicians, in various forms of men and animals, appearing, some like lions and centaurs, others like satyrs and monkeys. In this new disguise the Sophists make their last appearance on the scene: in the Laws Plato appears to have forgotten them, or at any rate makes only a slight allusion to them in a single passage (Laws).

VI. The Statesman is naturally connected with the Sophist. At first sight we are surprised to find that the Eleatic Stranger discourses to us, not only concerning the nature of Being and Not-being, but concerning the king and statesman. We perceive, however, that there is no inappropriateness in his maintaining the character of chief speaker, when we remember the close connexion which is assumed by Plato to exist between politics and dialectic. In both dialogues the Proteus Sophist is exhibited, first, in the disguise of an Eristic, secondly, of a false statesman. There are several lesser features which the two dialogues have in common. The styles and the situations of the speakers are very similar; there is the same love of division, and in both of them the mind of the writer is greatly occupied about method, to which he had probably intended to return in the projected 'Philosopher.'

The Statesman stands midway between the Republic and the Laws, and is also related to the Timaeus. The mythical or cosmical element reminds us of the Timaeus, the ideal of the Republic. A previous chaos in which the elements as yet were not, is hinted at both in the Timaeus and Statesman. The same ingenious arts of giving verisimilitude to a fiction are practised in both dialogues, and in both, as well as in the myth at the end of the Republic, Plato touches on the subject of necessity and free-will. The words in which he describes the miseries of states seem to be an amplification of the 'Cities will never cease from ill' of the Republic. The point of view in both is the same; and the differences not really important, e.g. in the myth, or in the account of the different kinds of states. But the treatment of the subject in the Statesman is fragmentary, and the shorter and later work, as might be expected, is less finished, and less worked out in detail. The idea of measure and the arrangement of the sciences supply connecting links both with the Republic and the Philebus.

More than any of the preceding dialogues, the Statesman seems to approximate in thought and language to the Laws. There is the same decline and tendency to monotony in style, the same self-consciousness, awkwardness, and over-civility; and in the Laws is contained the pattern of that second best form of government, which, after all, is admitted to be the only attainable one in this world. The 'gentle violence,' the marriage of dissimilar natures, the figure of the warp and the woof, are also found in the Laws. Both expressly recognize the conception of a first or ideal state, which has receded into an invisible heaven. Nor does the account of the origin and growth of society really differ in them, if we make allowance for the mythic character of the narrative in the Statesman. The virtuous tyrant is common to both of them; and the Eleatic Stranger takes up a position similar to that of the Athenian Stranger in the Laws.

VII. There would have been little disposition to doubt the genuineness of the Sophist and Statesman, if they had been compared with the Laws rather than with the Republic, and the Laws had been received, as they ought to be, on the authority of Aristotle and on the ground of their intrinsic excellence, as an undoubted work of Plato. The detailed consideration of the genuineness and order of the Platonic dialogues has been reserved for another place: a few of the reasons for defending the Sophist and Statesman may be given here.

1. The excellence, importance, and metaphysical originality of the two dialogues: no works at once so good and of such length are known to have proceeded from the hands of a forger.

2. The resemblances in them to other dialogues of Plato are such as might be expected to be found in works of the same author, and not in those of an imitator, being too subtle and minute to have been invented by another. The similar passages and turns of thought are generally inferior to the parallel passages in his earlier writings; and we might a priori have expected that, if altered, they would have been improved. But the comparison of the Laws proves that this repetition of his own thoughts and words in an inferior form is characteristic of Plato's later style.

3. The close connexion of them with the Theaetetus, Parmenides, and Philebus, involves the fate of these dialogues, as well as of the two suspected ones.

4. The suspicion of them seems mainly to rest on a presumption that in Plato's writings we may expect to find an uniform type of doctrine and opinion. But however we arrange the order, or narrow the circle of the dialogues, we must admit that they exhibit a growth and progress in the mind of Plato. And the appearance of change or progress is not to be regarded as impugning the genuineness of any particular writings, but may be even an argument in their favour. If we suppose the Sophist and Politicus to stand halfway between the Republic and the Laws, and in near connexion with the Theaetetus, the Parmenides, the Philebus, the arguments against them derived from differences of thought and style disappear or may be said without paradox in some degree to confirm their genuineness. There is no such interval between the Republic or Phaedrus and the two suspected dialogues, as that which separates all the earlier writings of Plato from the Laws. And the Theaetetus, Parmenides, and Philebus, supply links, by which, however different from them, they may be reunited with the great body of the Platonic writings.

PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Theodorus, Socrates, The Eleatic Stranger, The Younger Socrates. 
(257a) Σωκράτης
ἦ πολλὴν χάριν ὀφείλω σοι τῆς Θεαιτήτου γνωρίσεως, ὦ Θεόδωρε, ἅμα καὶ τῆς τοῦ ξένου. 
SOCRATES:
I owe you many thanks, indeed, Theodorus, for the acquaintance both of Theaetetus and of the Stranger. 
Θεόδωρος
τάχα δέ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὀφειλήσεις ταύτης τριπλασίαν: ἐπειδὰν τόν τε πολιτικὸν ἀπεργάσωνταί σοι καὶ τὸν φιλόσοφον. 
THEODORUS:
And in a little while, Socrates, you will owe me three times as many, when they have completed for you the delineation of the Statesman and of the Philosopher, as well as of the Sophist. 
Σωκράτης
εἶεν: οὕτω τοῦτο, ὦ φίλε Θεόδωρε, φήσομεν ἀκηκοότες εἶναι τοῦ περὶ λογισμοὺς καὶ τὰ γεωμετρικὰ κρατίστου; (257b) 
SOCRATES:
Sophist, statesman, philosopher! O my dear Theodorus, do my ears truly witness that this is the estimate formed of them by the great calculator and geometrician? 
Θεόδωρος
πῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες; 
THEODORUS:
What do you mean, Socrates? 
Σωκράτης
τῶν ἀνδρῶν ἕκαστον θέντος τῆς ἴσης ἀξίας, οἳ τῇ τιμῇ πλέον ἀλλήλων ἀφεστᾶσιν ἢ κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τὴν τῆς ὑμετέρας τέχνης. 
SOCRATES:
I mean that you rate them all at the same value, whereas they are really separated by an interval, which no geometrical ratio can express. 
Θεόδωρος
εὖ γε νὴ τὸν ἡμέτερον θεόν, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸν Ἄμμωνα, καὶ δικαίως, καὶ πάνυ μὲν οὖν μνημονικῶς ἐπέπληξάς μοι τὸ περὶ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἁμάρτημα. 
καὶ σὲ μὲν ἀντὶ τούτων εἰς αὖθις μέτειμι: σὺ δ᾽ ἡμῖν, ὦ ξένε, μηδαμῶς ἀποκάμῃς χαριζόμενος, ἀλλ᾽ ἑξῆς, εἴτε τὸν πολιτικὸν ἄνδρα (257c) πρότερον εἴτε τὸν φιλόσοφον προαιρῇ, προελόμενος διέξελθε. 
THEODORUS:
By Ammon, the god of Cyrene, Socrates, that is a very fair hit; and shows that you have not forgotten your geometry. 
I will retaliate on you at some other time, but I must now ask the Stranger, who will not, I hope, tire of his goodness to us, to proceed either with the Statesman or with the Philosopher, whichever he prefers. 
Ξένος
ταῦτ᾽, ὦ Θεόδωρε, ποιητέον: ἐπείπερ ἅπαξ γε ἐγκεχειρήκαμεν, καὶ οὐκ ἀποστατέον πρὶν ἂν αὐτῶν πρὸς τὸ τέλος ἔλθωμεν. ἀλλὰ γὰρ περὶ Θεαιτήτου τοῦδε τί χρὴ δρᾶν με; 
STRANGER:
That is my duty, Theodorus; having begun I must go on, and not leave the work unfinished. But what shall be done with Theaetetus? 
Θεόδωρος
τοῦ πέρι; 
THEODORUS:
In what respect? 
Ξένος
διαναπαύσωμεν αὐτὸν μεταλαβόντες αὐτοῦ τὸν συγγυμναστὴν τόνδε Σωκράτη; ἢ πῶς συμβουλεύεις; 
STRANGER:
Shall we relieve him, and take his companion, the Young Socrates, instead of him? What do you advise? 
Θεόδωρος
καθάπερ εἶπες, μεταλάμβανε: νέω γὰρ ὄντε ῥᾷον οἴσετον πάντα πόνον ἀναπαυομένω. 
THEODORUS:
Yes, give the other a turn, as you propose. The young always do better when they have intervals of rest. 
(257d)Σωκράτης
καὶ μὴν κινδυνεύετον, ὦ ξένε, ἄμφω ποθὲν ἐμοὶ συγγένειαν ἔχειν τινά. τὸν μέν γε οὖν ὑμεῖς κατὰ τὴν τοῦ προσώπου φύσιν ὅμοιον ἐμοὶ φαίνεσθαί φατε, τοῦ δ᾽ ἡμῖν ἡ (258a) κλῆσις ὁμώνυμος οὖσα καὶ ἡ πρόσρησις παρέχεταί τινα οἰκειότητα. δεῖ δὴ τούς γε συγγενεῖς ἡμᾶς ἀεὶ προθύμως διὰ λόγων ἀναγνωρίζειν. 
Θεαιτήτῳ μὲν οὖν αὐτός τε συνέμειξα χθὲς διὰ λόγων καὶ νῦν ἀκήκοα ἀποκρινομένου, Σωκράτους δὲ οὐδέτερα: δεῖ δὲ σκέψασθαι καὶ τοῦτον. ἐμοὶ μὲν οὖν εἰς αὖθις, σοὶ δὲ νῦν ἀποκρινέσθω. 
SOCRATES:
I think, Stranger, that both of them may be said to be in some way related to me; for the one, as you affirm, has the cut of my ugly face (compare Theaet.), the other is called by my name. And we should always be on the look-out to recognize a kinsman by the style of his conversation. 
I myself was discoursing with Theaetetus yesterday, and I have just been listening to his answers; my namesake I have not yet examined, but I must. Another time will do for me; to-day let him answer you. 
Ξένος
ταῦτ᾽ ἔσται. ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀκούεις δὴ Σωκράτους; 
STRANGER:
Very good. Young Socrates, do you hear what the elder Socrates is proposing? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I do. 
Ξένος
συγχωρεῖς οὖν οἷς λέγει; 
STRANGER:
And do you agree to his proposal? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
(258b) Ξένος
οὐ τὰ σὰ κωλύειν φαίνεται, δεῖ δὲ ἴσως ἔτι ἧττον τἀμὰ διακωλύειν. ἀλλὰ δὴ μετὰ τὸν σοφιστὴν ἀναγκαῖον, ὡς ἐμοὶ φαίνεται, πολιτικὸν τὸν ἄνδρα διαζητεῖν νῷν: καί μοι λέγε πότερον τῶν ἐπιστημόνων τιν᾽ ἡμῖν καὶ τοῦτον θετέον, ἢ πῶς; 
STRANGER:
As you do not object, still less can I. After the Sophist, then, I think that the Statesman naturally follows next in the order of enquiry. And please to say, whether he, too, should be ranked among those who have science. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τὰς ἐπιστήμας ἄρα διαληπτέον, ὥσπερ ἡνίκα τὸν πρότερον ἐσκοποῦμεν; 
STRANGER:
Then the sciences must be divided as before? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τάχ᾽ ἄν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I dare say. 
Ξένος
οὐ μὲν δὴ κατὰ ταὐτόν γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, φαίνεταί μοι τμῆμα. 
STRANGER:
But yet the division will not be the same? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How then? 
(258c) Ξένος
κατ᾽ ἄλλο. 
STRANGER:
They will be divided at some other point. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικέν γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τὴν οὖν πολιτικὴν ἀτραπὸν πῇ τις ἀνευρήσει; δεῖ γὰρ αὐτὴν ἀνευρεῖν, καὶ χωρὶς ἀφελόντας ἀπὸ τῶν ἄλλων ἰδέαν αὐτῇ μίαν ἐπισφραγίσασθαι, καὶ ταῖς ἄλλαις ἐκτροπαῖς ἓν ἄλλο εἶδος ἐπισημηναμένους πάσας τὰς ἐπιστήμας ὡς οὔσας δύο εἴδη διανοηθῆναι τὴν ψυχὴν ἡμῶν ποιῆσαι. 
STRANGER:
Where shall we discover the path of the Statesman? We must find and separate off, and set our seal upon this, and we will set the mark of another class upon all diverging paths. Thus the soul will conceive of all kinds of knowledge under two classes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τοῦτ᾽ ἤδη σὸν οἶμαι τὸ ἔργον, ὦ ξένε, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἐμὸν γίγνεται. (258d) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To find the path is your business, Stranger, and not mine. 
Ξένος
δεῖ γε μήν, ὦ Σώκρατες, αὐτὸ εἶναι καὶ σόν, ὅταν ἐμφανὲς ἡμῖν γένηται. 
STRANGER:
Yes, Socrates, but the discovery, when once made, must be yours as well as mine. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς εἶπες. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν οὐκ ἀριθμητικὴ μὲν καί τινες ἕτεραι ταύτῃ συγγενεῖς τέχναι ψιλαὶ τῶν πράξεών εἰσι, τὸ δὲ γνῶναι παρέσχοντο μόνον; 
STRANGER:
Well, and are not arithmetic and certain other kindred arts, merely abstract knowledge, wholly separated from action? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστιν οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
αἱ δέ γε περὶ τεκτονικὴν αὖ καὶ σύμπασαν χειρουργίαν ὥσπερ ἐν ταῖς πράξεσιν ἐνοῦσαν σύμφυτον τὴν (258e) ἐπιστήμην κέκτηνται, καὶ συναποτελοῦσι τὰ γιγνόμενα ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν σώματα πρότερον οὐκ ὄντα. 
STRANGER:
But in the art of carpentering and all other handicrafts, the knowledge of the workman is merged in his work; he not only knows, but he also makes things which previously did not exist. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
ταύτῃ τοίνυν συμπάσας ἐπιστήμας διαίρει, τὴν μὲν πρακτικὴν προσειπών, τὴν δὲ μόνον γνωστικήν. 
STRANGER:
Then let us divide sciences in general into those which are practical and those which are purely intellectual. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστω σοι ταῦθ᾽ ὡς μιᾶς ἐπιστήμης τῆς ὅλης εἴδη δύο. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let us assume these two divisions of science, which is one whole. 
Ξένος
πότερον οὖν τὸν πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλέα καὶ δεσπότην καὶ ἔτ᾽ οἰκονόμον θήσομεν ὡς ἓν πάντα ταῦτα προσαγορεύοντες, ἢ τοσαύτας τέχνας αὐτὰς εἶναι φῶμεν ὅσαπερ ὀνόματα ἐρρήθη; μᾶλλον δέ μοι δεῦρο ἕπου. 
STRANGER:
And are 'statesman,' 'king,' 'master,' or 'householder,' one and the same; or is there a science or art answering to each of these names? Or rather, allow me to put the matter in another way. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῇ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let me hear. 
(259a) Ξένος
τῇδε. εἴ τῴ τις τῶν δημοσιευόντων ἰατρῶν ἱκανὸς συμβουλεύειν ἰδιωτεύων αὐτός, ἆρ᾽ οὐκ ἀναγκαῖον αὐτῷ προσαγορεύεσθαι τοὔνομα τῆς τέχνης ταὐτὸν ὅπερ ᾧ συμβουλεύει; 
STRANGER:
If any one who is in a private station has the skill to advise one of the public physicians, must not he also be called a physician? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽; ὅστις βασιλεύοντι χώρας ἀνδρὶ παραινεῖν δεινὸς ἰδιώτης ὢν αὐτός, ἆρ᾽ οὐ φήσομεν ἔχειν αὐτὸν τὴν ἐπιστήμην ἣν ἔδει τὸν ἄρχοντα αὐτὸν κεκτῆσθαι; 
STRANGER:
And if any one who is in a private station is able to advise the ruler of a country, may not he be said to have the knowledge which the ruler himself ought to have? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φήσομεν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
(259b) Ξένος
ἀλλὰ μὴν ἥ γε ἀληθινοῦ βασιλέως βασιλική; 
STRANGER:
But surely the science of a true king is royal science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
ταύτην δὲ ὁ κεκτημένος οὐκ, ἄντε ἄρχων ἄντε ἰδιώτης ὢν τυγχάνῃ, πάντως κατά γε τὴν τέχνην αὐτὴν βασιλικὸς ὀρθῶς προσρηθήσεται; 
STRANGER:
And will not he who possesses this knowledge, whether he happens to be a ruler or a private man, when regarded only in reference to his art, be truly called 'royal'? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δίκαιον γοῦν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
He certainly ought to be. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν οἰκονόμος γε καὶ δεσπότης ταὐτόν. 
STRANGER:
And the householder and master are the same? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Of course. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; μεγάλης σχῆμα οἰκήσεως ἢ σμικρᾶς αὖ πόλεως ὄγκος μῶν τι πρὸς ἀρχὴν διοίσετον; 
STRANGER:
Again, a large household may be compared to a small state:--will they differ at all, as far as government is concerned? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδέν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
They will not. 
(259c) Ξένος
οὐκοῦν, ὃ νυνδὴ διεσκοπούμεθα, φανερὸν ὡς ἐπιστήμη μία περὶ πάντ᾽ ἐστὶ ταῦτα: ταύτην δὲ εἴτε βασιλικὴν εἴτε πολιτικὴν εἴτε οἰκονομικήν τις ὀνομάζει, μηδὲν αὐτῷ διαφερώμεθα. 
STRANGER:
Then, returning to the point which we were just now discussing, do we not clearly see that there is one science of all of them; and this science may be called either royal or political or economical; we will not quarrel with any one about the name. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί γάρ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
ἀλλὰ μὴν τόδε γε δῆλον, ὡς βασιλεὺς ἅπας χερσὶ καὶ σύμπαντι τῷ σώματι σμίκρ᾽ ἄττα εἰς τὸ κατέχειν τὴν ἀρχὴν δύναται πρὸς τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς σύνεσιν καὶ ῥώμην. 
STRANGER:
This too, is evident, that the king cannot do much with his hands, or with his whole body, towards the maintenance of his empire, compared with what he does by the intelligence and strength of his mind. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly not. 
Ξένος
τῆς δὴ γνωστικῆς μᾶλλον ἢ τῆς χειροτεχνικῆς καὶ (259d) ὅλως πρακτικῆς βούλει τὸν βασιλέα φῶμεν οἰκειότερον εἶναι; 
STRANGER:
Then, shall we say that the king has a greater affinity to knowledge than to manual arts and to practical life in general? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly he has. 
Ξένος
τὴν ἄρα πολιτικὴν καὶ πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλικὴν καὶ βασιλικὸν εἰς ταὐτὸν ὡς ἓν πάντα ταῦτα συνθήσομεν; 
STRANGER:
Then we may put all together as one and the same--statesmanship and the statesman--the kingly science and the king. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν πορευοίμεθ᾽ ἂν ἑξῆς, εἰ μετὰ ταῦτα τὴν γνωστικὴν διοριζοίμεθα; 
STRANGER:
And now we shall only be proceeding in due order if we go on to divide the sphere of knowledge? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
πρόσεχε δὴ τὸν νοῦν ἂν ἄρα ἐν αὐτῇ τινα διαφυὴν κατανοήσωμεν. 
STRANGER:
Think whether you can find any joint or parting in knowledge. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φράζε ποίαν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Tell me of what sort. 
(259e) Ξένος
τοιάνδε. λογιστική πού τις ἡμῖν ἦν τέχνη. 
STRANGER:
Such as this: You may remember that we made an art of calculation? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τῶν γνωστικῶν γε οἶμαι παντάπασι τεχνῶν. 
STRANGER:
Which was, unmistakeably, one of the arts of knowledge? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
γνούσῃ δὴ λογιστικῇ τὴν ἐν τοῖς ἀριθμοῖς διαφορὰν μῶν τι πλέον ἔργον δώσομεν ἢ τὰ γνωσθέντα κρῖναι; 
STRANGER:
And to this art of calculation which discerns the differences of numbers shall we assign any other function except to pass judgment on their differences? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How could we? 
Ξένος
καὶ γὰρ ἀρχιτέκτων γε πᾶς οὐκ αὐτὸς ἐργατικὸς ἀλλ᾽ ἐργατῶν ἄρχων. 
STRANGER:
You know that the master-builder does not work himself, but is the ruler of workmen? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
παρεχόμενός γέ που γνῶσιν ἀλλ᾽ οὐ χειρουργίαν. 
STRANGER:
He contributes knowledge, not manual labour? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
(260a) Ξένος
δικαίως δὴ μετέχειν ἂν λέγοιτο τῆς γνωστικῆς ἐπιστήμης. 
STRANGER:
And may therefore be justly said to share in theoretical science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
τούτῳ δέ γε οἶμαι προσήκει κρίναντι μὴ τέλος ἔχειν μηδ᾽ ἀπηλλάχθαι, καθάπερ ὁ λογιστὴς ἀπήλλακτο, προστάττειν δὲ ἑκάστοις τῶν ἐργατῶν τό γε πρόσφορον ἕως ἂν ἀπεργάσωνται τὸ προσταχθέν. 
STRANGER:
But he ought not, like the calculator, to regard his functions as at an end when he has formed a judgment;--he must assign to the individual workmen their appropriate task until they have completed the work. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν γνωστικαὶ μὲν αἵ τε τοιαῦται σύμπασαι καὶ ὁπόσαι συνέπονται τῇ λογιστικῇ, κρίσει δὲ καὶ ἐπιτάξει (260b) διαφέρετον ἀλλήλοιν τούτω τὼ γένη; 
STRANGER:
Are not all such sciences, no less than arithmetic and the like, subjects of pure knowledge; and is not the difference between the two classes, that the one sort has the power of judging only, and the other of ruling as well? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεσθον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is evident. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν συμπάσης τῆς γνωστικῆς εἰ τὸ μὲν ἐπιτακτικὸν μέρος, τὸ δὲ κριτικὸν διαιρούμενοι προσείποιμεν, ἐμμελῶς ἂν φαῖμεν διῃρῆσθαι; 
STRANGER:
May we not very properly say, that of all knowledge, there are two divisions--one which rules, and the other which judges? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν δόξαν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I should think so. 
Ξένος
ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῖς γε κοινῇ τι πράττουσιν ἀγαπητὸν ὁμονοεῖν. 
STRANGER:
And when men have anything to do in common, that they should be of one mind is surely a desirable thing? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τούτου τοίνυν μέχριπερ ἂν αὐτοὶ κοινωνῶμεν, ἐατέον τά γε τῶν ἄλλων δοξάσματα χαίρειν. 
STRANGER:
Then while we are at unity among ourselves, we need not mind about the fancies of others? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
(260c) Ξένος
φέρε δή, τούτοιν τοῖν τέχναιν ἡμῖν τὸν βασιλικὸν ἐν ποτέρᾳ θετέον; ἆρ᾽ ἐν τῇ κριτικῇ, καθάπερ τινὰ θεατήν, ἢ μᾶλλον τῆς ἐπιτακτικῆς ὡς ὄντα αὐτὸν τέχνης θήσομεν, δεσπόζοντά γε; 
STRANGER:
And now, in which of these divisions shall we place the king?--Is he a judge and a kind of spectator? Or shall we assign to him the art of command--for he is a ruler? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὐ μᾶλλον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
The latter, clearly. 
Ξένος
τὴν ἐπιτακτικὴν δὴ τέχνην πάλιν ἂν εἴη θεατέον εἴ πῃ διέστηκεν. 
καί μοι δοκεῖ τῇδέ πῃ, καθάπερ ἡ τῶν καπήλων τέχνη τῆς τῶν αὐτοπωλῶν διώρισται τέχνης, καὶ (260d) τὸ βασιλικὸν γένος ἔοικεν ἀπὸ τοῦ τῶν κηρύκων γένους ἀφωρίσθαι. 
STRANGER:
Then we must see whether there is any mark of division in the art of command too. 
I am inclined to think that there is a distinction similar to that of manufacturer and retail dealer, which parts off the king from the herald. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How is this? 
Ξένος
πωληθέντα που πρότερον ἔργα ἀλλότρια παραδεχόμενοι δεύτερον πωλοῦσι πάλιν οἱ κάπηλοι. 
STRANGER:
Why, does not the retailer receive and sell over again the productions of others, which have been sold before? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly he does. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν καὶ τὸ κηρυκικὸν φῦλον ἐπιταχθέντ᾽ ἀλλότρια νοήματα παραδεχόμενον αὐτὸ δεύτερον ἐπιτάττει πάλιν ἑτέροις. 
STRANGER:
And is not the herald under command, and does he not receive orders, and in his turn give them to others? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τί οὖν; εἰς ταὐτὸν μείξομεν βασιλικὴν ἑρμηνευτικῇ, (260e) κελευστικῇ, μαντικῇ, κηρυκικῇ, καὶ πολλαῖς ἑτέραις τούτων τέχναις συγγενέσιν, αἳ σύμπασαι τό γ᾽ ἐπιτάττειν ἔχουσιν; ἢ βούλει, καθάπερ ᾐκάζομεν νυνδή, καὶ τοὔνομα παρεικάσωμεν, ἐπειδὴ καὶ σχεδὸν ἀνώνυμον ὂν τυγχάνει τὸ τῶν αὐτεπιτακτῶν γένος, καὶ ταύτῃ ταῦτα διελώμεθα, τὸ μὲν τῶν βασιλέων γένος εἰς τὴν αὐτεπιτακτικὴν θέντες, τοῦ δὲ ἄλλου παντὸς ἀμελήσαντες, ὄνομα ἕτερον αὐτοῖς παραχωρήσαντες θέσθαι τινά; τοῦ γὰρ ἄρχοντος ἕνεκα ἡμῖν ἡ μέθοδος ἦν (261a) ἀλλ᾽ οὐχὶ τοῦ ἐναντίου. 
STRANGER:
Then shall we mingle the kingly art in the same class with the art of the herald, the interpreter, the boatswain, the prophet, and the numerous kindred arts which exercise command; or, as in the preceding comparison we spoke of manufacturers, or sellers for themselves, and of retailers,--seeing, too, that the class of supreme rulers, or rulers for themselves, is almost nameless--shall we make a word following the same analogy, and refer kings to a supreme or ruling-for-self science, leaving the rest to receive a name from some one else? For we are seeking the ruler; and our enquiry is not concerned with him who is not a ruler. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἐπειδὴ τοῦτο μετρίως ἀφέστηκεν ἀπ᾽ ἐκείνων, ἀλλοτριότητι διορισθὲν πρὸς οἰκειότητα, τοῦτο αὐτὸ πάλιν αὖ διαιρεῖν ἀναγκαῖον, εἴ τινα τομὴν ἔτι ἔχομεν ὑπείκουσαν ἐν τούτῳ; 
STRANGER:
Thus a very fair distinction has been attained between the man who gives his own commands, and him who gives another's. And now let us see if the supreme power allows of any further division. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν φαινόμεθα ἔχειν: ἀλλ᾽ ἐπακολουθῶν σύντεμνε. 
STRANGER:
I think that it does; and please to assist me in making the division. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῇ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
At what point? 
Ξένος
πάντας ὁπόσους ἂν ἄρχοντας διανοηθῶμεν ἐπιτάξει (261b) προσχρωμένους ἆρ᾽ οὐχ εὑρήσομεν γενέσεώς τινος ἕνεκα προστάττοντας; 
STRANGER:
May not all rulers be supposed to command for the sake of producing something? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν τά γε γιγνόμενα πάντα δίχα διαλαβεῖν οὐ παντάπασι χαλεπόν. 
STRANGER:
Nor is there any difficulty in dividing the things produced into two classes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῇ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How would you divide them? 
Ξένος
τὰ μὲν ἄψυχα αὐτῶν ἐστί που συμπάντων, τὰ δ᾽ ἔμψυχα. 
STRANGER:
Of the whole class, some have life and some are without life. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τούτοις δέ γε αὐτοῖς τὸ τοῦ γνωστικοῦ μέρος ἐπιτακτικὸν ὄν, εἴπερ βουλόμεθα τέμνειν, τεμοῦμεν. 
STRANGER:
And by the help of this distinction we may make, if we please, a subdivision of the section of knowledge which commands. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κατὰ τί; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
At what point? 
Ξένος
τὸ μὲν ἐπὶ ταῖς τῶν ἀψύχων γενέσεσιν αὐτοῦ τάττοντες, (261c) τὸ δ᾽ ἐπὶ ταῖς τῶν ἐμψύχων: καὶ πᾶν οὕτως ἤδη διαιρήσεται δίχα. 
STRANGER:
One part may be set over the production of lifeless, the other of living objects; and in this way the whole will be divided. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασί γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τὸ μὲν τοίνυν αὐτῶν παραλίπωμεν, τὸ δ᾽ ἀναλάβωμεν, ἀναλαβόντες δὲ μερισώμεθα εἰς δύο τὸ σύμπαν. 
STRANGER:
That division, then, is complete; and now we may leave one half, and take up the other; which may also be divided into two. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγεις δ᾽ αὐτοῖν ἀναληπτέον εἶναι πότερον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Which of the two halves do you mean? 
Ξένος
πάντως που τὸ περὶ τὰ ζῷα ἐπιτακτικόν. οὐ γὰρ δὴ τό γε τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐπιστήμης ἐστί ποτε τῶν ἀψύχων ἐπιστατοῦν, οἷον ἀρχιτεκτονικόν, ἀλλὰ γενναιότερον, ἐν τοῖς (261d) ζῴοις καὶ περὶ αὐτὰ ταῦτα τὴν δύναμιν ἀεὶ κεκτημένον. 
STRANGER:
Of course that which exercises command about animals. For, surely, the royal science is not like that of a master-workman, a science presiding over lifeless objects;--the king has a nobler function, which is the management and control of living beings. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τήν γε μὴν τῶν ζῴων γένεσιν καὶ τροφὴν τὴν μέν τις ἂν ἴδοι μονοτροφίαν οὖσαν, τὴν δὲ κοινὴν τῶν ἐν ταῖς ἀγέλαις θρεμμάτων ἐπιμέλειαν. 
STRANGER:
And the breeding and tending of living beings may be observed to be sometimes a tending of the individual; in other cases, a common care of creatures in flocks? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
ἀλλ᾽ οὐ μὴν τόν γε πολιτικὸν εὑρήσομεν ἰδιοτρόφον, ὥσπερ βοηλάτην ἤ τινα ἱπποκόμον, ἀλλ᾽ ἱπποφορβῷ τε καὶ βουφορβῷ μᾶλλον προσεοικότα. 
STRANGER:
But the statesman is not a tender of individuals--not like the driver or groom of a single ox or horse; he is rather to be compared with the keeper of a drove of horses or oxen. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεταί γε δὴ ῥηθὲν νῦν. (261e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, I see, thanks to you. 
Ξένος
πότερον οὖν τῆς ζῳοτροφίας τὴν τῶν συμπόλλων κοινὴν τροφὴν ἀγελαιοτροφίαν ἢ κοινοτροφικήν τινα ὀνομάζομεν; 
STRANGER:
Shall we call this art of tending many animals together, the art of managing a herd, or the art of collective management? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὁπότερον ἂν ἐν τῷ λόγῳ συμβαίνῃ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
No matter;--whichever suggests itself to us in the course of conversation. 
Ξένος
καλῶς γε, ὦ Σώκρατες: κἂν διαφυλάξῃς τὸ μὴ σπουδάζειν ἐπὶ τοῖς ὀνόμασιν, πλουσιώτερος εἰς τὸ γῆρας ἀναφανήσῃ φρονήσεως. 
νῦν δὲ τοῦτο μέν, καθάπερ διακελεύῃ, ποιητέον: τὴν δὲ ἀγελαιοτροφικὴν ἆρ᾽ ἐννοεῖς πῇ (262a) τις δίδυμον ἀποφήνας τὸ ζητούμενον ἐν διπλασίοισι τὰ νῦν ἐν τοῖς ἡμίσεσιν εἰς τότε ποιήσει ζητεῖσθαι; 
STRANGER:
Very good, Socrates; and, if you continue to be not too particular about names, you will be all the richer in wisdom when you are an old man. 
And now, as you say, leaving the discussion of the name,--can you see a way in which a person, by showing the art of herding to be of two kinds, may cause that which is now sought amongst twice the number of things, to be then sought amongst half that number? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
προθυμήσομαι. καί μοι δοκεῖ τῶν μὲν ἀνθρώπων ἑτέρα τις εἶναι, τῶν δ᾽ αὖ θηρίων ἄλλη τροφή. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I will try;--there appears to me to be one management of men and another of beasts. 
Ξένος
παντάπασί γε προθυμότατα καὶ ἀνδρειότατα διῄρησαι: μὴ μέντοι τοῦτό γε εἰς αὖθις κατὰ δύναμιν πάσχωμεν. 
STRANGER:
You have certainly divided them in a most straightforward and manly style; but you have fallen into an error which hereafter I think that we had better avoid. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is the error? 
Ξένος
μὴ σμικρὸν μόριον ἓν πρὸς μεγάλα καὶ πολλὰ (262b) ἀφαιρῶμεν, μηδὲ εἴδους χωρίς: ἀλλὰ τὸ μέρος ἅμα εἶδος ἐχέτω. 
κάλλιστον μὲν γὰρ ἀπὸ τῶν ἄλλων εὐθὺς διαχωρίζειν τὸ ζητούμενον, ἂν ὀρθῶς ἔχῃ, καθάπερ ὀλίγον σὺ πρότερον οἰηθεὶς ἔχειν τὴν διαίρεσιν ἐπέσπευσας τὸν λόγον, ἰδὼν ἐπ᾽ ἀνθρώπους πορευόμενον: ἀλλὰ γάρ, ὦ φίλε, λεπτουργεῖν οὐκ ἀσφαλές, διὰ μέσων δὲ ἀσφαλέστερον ἰέναι τέμνοντας, καὶ μᾶλλον ἰδέαις ἄν τις προστυγχάνοι.  τοῦτο δὲ διαφέρει τὸ (262c) πᾶν πρὸς τὰς ζητήσεις. 
STRANGER:
I think that we had better not cut off a single small portion which is not a species, from many larger portions; the part should be a species. 
To separate off at once the subject of investigation, is a most excellent plan, if only the separation be rightly made; and you were under the impression that you were right, because you saw that you would come to man; and this led you to hasten the steps. But you should not chip off too small a piece, my friend; the safer way is to cut through the middle; which is also the more likely way of finding classes.  Attention to this principle makes all the difference in a process of enquiry. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς, ὦ ξένε, λέγεις τοῦτο; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean, Stranger? 
Ξένος
πειρατέον ἔτι σαφέστερον φράζειν εὐνοίᾳ τῆς σῆς φύσεως, ὦ Σώκρατες. ἐν τῷ μὲν οὖν παρεστηκότι τὰ νῦν δηλῶσαι μηδὲν ἐνδεῶς ἀδύνατον: ἐπιχειρητέον δέ τι καὶ σμικρῷ πλέον αὐτὸ προαγαγεῖν εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν σαφηνείας ἕνεκα. 
STRANGER:
I will endeavour to speak more plainly out of love to your good parts, Socrates; and, although I cannot at present entirely explain myself, I will try, as we proceed, to make my meaning a little clearer. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον οὖν δὴ φράζεις διαιρουμένους ἡμᾶς οὐκ ὀρθῶς ἄρτι δρᾶν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What was the error of which, as you say, we were guilty in our recent division? 
Ξένος
τοιόνδε, οἷον εἴ τις τἀνθρώπινον ἐπιχειρήσας δίχα (262d) διελέσθαι γένος διαιροῖ καθάπερ οἱ πολλοὶ τῶν ἐνθάδε διανέμουσι, τὸ μὲν Ἑλληνικὸν ὡς ἓν ἀπὸ πάντων ἀφαιροῦντες χωρίς, σύμπασι δὲ τοῖς ἄλλοις γένεσιν, ἀπείροις οὖσι καὶ ἀμείκτοις καὶ ἀσυμφώνοις πρὸς ἄλληλα, βάρβαρον μιᾷ κλήσει προσειπόντες αὐτὸ διὰ ταύτην τὴν μίαν κλῆσιν καὶ γένος ἓν αὐτὸ εἶναι προσδοκῶσιν: ἢ τὸν ἀριθμόν τις αὖ νομίζοι κατ᾽ εἴδη δύο διαιρεῖν μυριάδα ἀποτεμνόμενος ἀπὸ πάντων, (262e) ὡς ἓν εἶδος ἀποχωρίζων, καὶ τῷ λοιπῷ δὴ παντὶ θέμενος ἓν ὄνομα διὰ τὴν κλῆσιν αὖ καὶ τοῦτ᾽ ἀξιοῖ γένος ἐκείνου χωρὶς ἕτερον ἓν γίγνεσθαι. 
κάλλιον δέ που καὶ μᾶλλον κατ᾽ εἴδη καὶ δίχα διαιροῖτ᾽ ἄν, εἰ τὸν μὲν ἀριθμὸν ἀρτίῳ καὶ περιττῷ τις τέμνοι, τὸ δὲ αὖ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος ἄρρενι καὶ θήλει, Λυδοὺς δὲ ἢ Φρύγας ἤ τινας ἑτέρους πρὸς ἅπαντας τάττων ἀποσχίζοι τότε, ἡνίκα ἀποροῖ γένος ἅμα καὶ μέρος εὑρίσκειν (263a) ἑκάτερον τῶν σχισθέντων. 
STRANGER:
The error was just as if some one who wanted to divide the human race, were to divide them after the fashion which prevails in this part of the world; here they cut off the Hellenes as one species, and all the other species of mankind, which are innumerable, and have no ties or common language, they include under the single name of 'barbarians,' and because they have one name they are supposed to be of one species also. Or suppose that in dividing numbers you were to cut off ten thousand from all the rest, and make of it one species, comprehending the rest under another separate name, you might say that here too was a single class, because you had given it a single name. 
Whereas you would make a much better and more equal and logical classification of numbers, if you divided them into odd and even; or of the human species, if you divided them into male and female; and only separated off Lydians or Phrygians, or any other tribe, and arrayed them against the rest of the world, when you could no longer make a division into parts which were also classes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα: ἀλλὰ γὰρ τοῦτο αὐτό, ὦ ξένε, πῶς ἄν τις γένος καὶ μέρος ἐναργέστερον γνοίη, ὡς οὐ ταὐτόν ἐστον ἀλλ᾽ ἕτερον ἀλλήλοιν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true; but I wish that this distinction between a part and a class could still be made somewhat plainer. 
Ξένος
ὦ βέλτιστε ἀνδρῶν, οὐ φαῦλον προστάττεις, Σώκρατες. ἡμεῖς μὲν καὶ νῦν μακροτέραν τοῦ δέοντος ἀπὸ τοῦ προτεθέντος λόγου πεπλανήμεθα, σὺ δὲ ἔτι πλέον ἡμᾶς κελεύεις πλανηθῆναι. 
νῦν μὲν οὖν, ὥσπερ εἰκός, ἐπανίωμεν (263b) πάλιν: ταῦτα δὲ εἰς αὖθις κατὰ σχολὴν καθάπερ ἰχνεύοντες μέτιμεν. οὐ μὴν ἀλλὰ τοῦτό γε αὖ παντάπασιν φύλαξαι, μή ποτε παρ᾽ ἐμοῦ δόξῃς αὐτὸ ἐναργῶς διωρισμένον ἀκηκοέναι. 
STRANGER:
O Socrates, best of men, you are imposing upon me a very difficult task. We have already digressed further from our original intention than we ought, and you would have us wander still further away. 
But we must now return to our subject; and hereafter, when there is a leisure hour, we will follow up the other track; at the same time, I wish you to guard against imagining that you ever heard me declare-- 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
εἶδός τε καὶ μέρος ἕτερον ἀλλήλων εἶναι. 
STRANGER:
That a class and a part are distinct. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What did I hear, then? 
Ξένος
ὡς εἶδος μὲν ὅταν ᾖ του, καὶ μέρος αὐτὸ ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι τοῦ πράγματος ὅτουπερ ἂν εἶδος λέγηται: μέρος δὲ εἶδος οὐδεμία ἀνάγκη. ταύτῃ με ἢ 'κείνῃ μᾶλλον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀεὶ φάθι λέγειν. 
STRANGER:
That a class is necessarily a part, but there is no similar necessity that a part should be a class; that is the view which I should always wish you to attribute to me, Socrates. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ταῦτ᾽ ἔσται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
So be it. 
(263c) Ξένος
φράσον δή μοι τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο. 
STRANGER:
There is another thing which I should like to know. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
τὸ τῆς ἀποπλανήσεως ὁπόθεν ἡμᾶς δεῦρ᾽ ἤγαγεν. οἶμαι μὲν γὰρ μάλιστα, ὅθεν ἐρωτηθεὶς σὺ τὴν ἀγελαιοτροφίαν ὅπῃ διαιρετέον εἶπες μάλα προθύμως δύ᾽ εἶναι ζῴων γένη, τὸ μὲν ἀνθρώπινον, ἕτερον δὲ τῶν ἄλλων συμπάντων θηρίων ἕν. 
STRANGER:
The point at which we digressed; for, if I am not mistaken, the exact place was at the question, Where you would divide the management of herds. To this you appeared rather too ready to answer that there were two species of animals; man being one, and all brutes making up the other. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
καὶ ἔμοιγε δὴ τότ᾽ ἐφάνης μέρος ἀφαιρῶν ἡγεῖσθαι καταλιπεῖν τὸ λοιπὸν αὖ πάντων γένος ἕν, ὅτι πᾶσι ταὐτὸν (263d) ἐπονομάζειν ἔσχες ὄνομα, θηρία καλέσας. 
STRANGER:
I thought that in taking away a part, you imagined that the remainder formed a class, because you were able to call them by the common name of brutes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἦν καὶ ταῦτα οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That again is true. 
Ξένος
τὸ δέ γε, ὦ πάντων ἀνδρειότατε, τάχ᾽ ἄν, εἴ που φρόνιμόν ἐστί τι ζῷον ἕτερον, οἷον δοκεῖ τὸ τῶν γεράνων, ἤ τι τοιοῦτον ἄλλο, ὃ κατὰ ταὐτὰ ἴσως διονομάζει καθάπερ καὶ σύ, γεράνους μὲν ἓν γένος ἀντιτιθὲν τοῖς ἄλλοις ζῴοις καὶ σεμνῦνον αὐτὸ ἑαυτό, τὰ δὲ ἄλλα μετὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων συλλαβὸν εἰς ταὐτὸ οὐδὲν ἄλλο πλὴν ἴσως θηρία προσείποι. (263e) πειραθῶμεν οὖν ἡμεῖς ἐξευλαβεῖσθαι πάνθ᾽ ὁπόσα τοιαῦτα. 
STRANGER:
Suppose now, O most courageous of dialecticians, that some wise and understanding creature, such as a crane is reputed to be, were, in imitation of you, to make a similar division, and set up cranes against all other animals to their own special glorification, at the same time jumbling together all the others, including man, under the appellation of brutes,--here would be the sort of error which we must try to avoid. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How can we be safe? 
Ξένος
μὴ πᾶν τὸ τῶν ζῴων γένος διαιρούμενοι, ἵνα ἧττον αὐτὰ πάσχωμεν. 
STRANGER:
If we do not divide the whole class of animals, we shall be less likely to fall into that error. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδὲν γὰρ δεῖ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
We had better not take the whole? 
Ξένος
καὶ γὰρ οὖν καὶ τότε ἡμαρτάνετο ταύτῃ. 
STRANGER:
Yes, there lay the source of error in our former division. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How? 
Ξένος
τῆς γνωστικῆς ὅσον ἐπιτακτικὸν ἡμῖν μέρος ἦν που τοῦ ζῳοτροφικοῦ γένους, ἀγελαίων μὴν ζῴων. ἦ γάρ; 
STRANGER:
You remember how that part of the art of knowledge which was concerned with command, had to do with the rearing of living creatures,--I mean, with animals in herds? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
(264a) Ξένος
διῄρητο τοίνυν ἤδη καὶ τότε σύμπαν τὸ ζῷον τῷ τιθασῷ καὶ ἀγρίῳ. τὰ μὲν γὰρ ἔχοντα τιθασεύεσθαι φύσιν ἥμερα προσείρηται, τὰ δὲ μὴ 'θέλοντα ἄγρια. 
STRANGER:
In that case, there was already implied a division of all animals into tame and wild; those whose nature can be tamed are called tame, and those which cannot be tamed are called wild. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
ἣν δέ γε θηρεύομεν ἐπιστήμην, ἐν τοῖς ἡμέροις ἦν τε καὶ ἔστιν, ἐπὶ τοῖς ἀγελαίοις μὴν ζητητέα θρέμμασιν. 
STRANGER:
And the political science of which we are in search, is and ever was concerned with tame animals, and is also confined to gregarious animals. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
μὴ τοίνυν διαιρώμεθα ὥσπερ τότε πρὸς ἅπαντα ἀποβλέψαντες, μηδὲ σπεύσαντες, ἵνα δὴ ταχὺ γενώμεθα (264b) πρὸς τῇ πολιτικῇ. πεποίηκε γὰρ ἡμᾶς καὶ νῦν παθεῖν τὸ κατὰ τὴν παροιμίαν πάθος. 
STRANGER:
But then we ought not to divide, as we did, taking the whole class at once. Neither let us be in too great haste to arrive quickly at the political science; for this mistake has already brought upon us the misfortune of which the proverb speaks. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What misfortune? 
Ξένος
οὐχ ἡσύχους εὖ διαιροῦντας ἠνυκέναι βραδύτερον. 
STRANGER:
The misfortune of too much haste, which is too little speed. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ καλῶς γε, ὦ ξένε, πεποίηκε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
And all the better, Stranger;--we got what we deserved. 
Ξένος
ταῦτ᾽ ἔστω. πάλιν δ᾽ οὖν ἐξ ἀρχῆς τὴν κοινοτροφικὴν πειρώμεθα διαιρεῖν: ἴσως γὰρ καὶ τοῦτο ὃ σὺ προθυμῇ διαπεραινόμενος ὁ λόγος αὐτός σοι κάλλιον μηνύσει. καί μοι φράζε. 
STRANGER:
Very well: Let us then begin again, and endeavour to divide the collective rearing of animals; for probably the completion of the argument will best show what you are so anxious to know. Tell me, then-- 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
τόδε, εἴ τινων πολλάκις ἄρα διακήκοας: οὐ γὰρ δὴ (264c) προστυχής γε αὐτὸς οἶδ᾽ ὅτι γέγονας ταῖς ἐν τῷ Νείλῳ τιθασείαις τῶν ἰχθύων καὶ τῶν ἐν ταῖς βασιλικαῖς λίμναις. ἐν μὲν γὰρ κρήναις τάχ᾽ ἂν ἴσως εἴης ᾐσθημένος. 
STRANGER:
Have you ever heard, as you very likely may--for I do not suppose that you ever actually visited them--of the preserves of fishes in the Nile, and in the ponds of the Great King; or you may have seen similar preserves in wells at home? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν καὶ ταῦτα τεθέαμαι κἀκεῖνα πολλῶν ἀκήκοα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, to be sure, I have seen them, and I have often heard the others described. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν χηνοβωτίας γε καὶ γερανοβωτίας, εἰ καὶ μὴ πεπλάνησαι περὶ τὰ Θετταλικὰ πεδία, πέπυσαι γοῦν καὶ πιστεύεις εἶναι. 
STRANGER:
And you may have heard also, and may have been assured by report, although you have not travelled in those regions, of nurseries of geese and cranes in the plains of Thessaly? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
(264d) Ξένος
τοῦδ᾽ ἕνεκά τοι πάντα ἠρώτησα ταῦτα, διότι τῆς τῶν ἀγελαίων τροφῆς ἔστι μὲν ἔνυδρον, ἔστι δὲ καὶ ξηροβατικόν. 
STRANGER:
I asked you, because here is a new division of the management of herds, into the management of land and of water herds. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστι γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
There is. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν καὶ σοὶ συνδοκεῖ ταύτῃ δεῖν διχάζειν τὴν κοινοτροφικὴν ἐπιστήμην, ἐφ᾽ ἑκατέρῳ τούτων τὸ μέρος αὐτῆς ἐπινέμοντας ἑκάτερον, τὸ μὲν ἕτερον ὑγροτροφικὸν ὀνομάζοντας, τὸ δ᾽ ἕτερον ξηροτροφικόν; 
STRANGER:
And do you agree that we ought to divide the collective rearing of herds into two corresponding parts, the one the rearing of water, and the other the rearing of land herds? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔμοιγε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν καὶ τὸ βασιλικὸν οὕτως οὐ ζητήσομεν (264e) ὁποτέρας ἐστὶ τῆς τέχνης: δῆλον δὴ γὰρ παντί. 
STRANGER:
There is surely no need to ask which of these two contains the royal art, for it is evident to everybody. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
πᾶς μὲν δὴ τό γε ξηροτροφικὸν τῆς ἀγελαιοτροφίας διέλοιτ᾽ ἂν φῦλον. 
STRANGER:
Any one can divide the herds which feed on dry land? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How would you divide them? 
Ξένος
τῷ πτηνῷ τε καὶ πεζῷ διορισάμενος. 
STRANGER:
I should distinguish between those which fly and those which walk. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Most true. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; τὸ πολιτικὸν ἦ περὶ τὸ πεζὸν ζητητέον; ἢ οὐκ οἴει καὶ τὸν ἀφρονέστατον ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν δοξάζειν οὕτως; 
STRANGER:
And where shall we look for the political animal? Might not an idiot, so to speak, know that he is a pedestrian? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔγωγε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τὴν δὲ πεζονομικήν, καθάπερ ἄρτι τὸν ἀριθμόν, δεῖ τεμνομένην δίχα ἀποφαίνειν. 
STRANGER:
The art of managing the walking animal has to be further divided, just as you might halve an even number. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly. 
(265a) Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ἐφ᾽ ὅ γε μέρος ὥρμηκεν ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος, ἐπ᾽ ἐκεῖνο δύο τινὲ καθορᾶν ὁδὼ τεταμένα φαίνεται, τὴν μὲν θάττω, πρὸς μέγα μέρος σμικρὸν διαιρουμένην, τὴν δέ, ὅπερ ἐν τῷ πρόσθεν ἐλέγομεν ὅτι δεῖ μεσοτομεῖν ὡς μάλιστα, τοῦτ᾽ ἔχουσαν μᾶλλον, μακροτέραν γε μήν. ἔξεστιν οὖν ὁποτέραν ἂν βουληθῶμεν, ταύτην πορευθῆναι. 
STRANGER:
Let me note that here appear in view two ways to that part or class which the argument aims at reaching,--the one a speedier way, which cuts off a small portion and leaves a large; the other agrees better with the principle which we were laying down, that as far as we can we should divide in the middle; but it is longer. We can take either of them, whichever we please. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δέ; ἀμφοτέρας ἀδύνατον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Cannot we have both ways? 
Ξένος
ἅμα γ᾽, ὦ θαυμαστέ: ἐν μέρει γε μὴν δῆλον ὅτι δυνατόν. 
STRANGER:
Together? What a thing to ask! but, if you take them in turn, you clearly may. 
(265b) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἐν μέρει τοίνυν ἔγωγε ἀμφοτέρας αἱροῦμαι. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Then I should like to have them in turn. 
Ξένος
ῥᾴδιον, ἐπειδὴ τὸ λοιπὸν βραχύ: κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς μὴν καὶ μεσοῦσιν ἅμα τῆς πορείας χαλεπὸν ἂν ἦν ἡμῖν τὸ πρόσταγμα. 
νῦν δ᾽, ἐπειδὴ δοκεῖ ταύτῃ, τὴν μακροτέραν πρότερον ἴωμεν: νεαλέστεροι γὰρ ὄντες ῥᾷον αὐτὴν πορευσόμεθα. τὴν δὲ δὴ διαίρεσιν ὅρα. 
STRANGER:
There will be no difficulty, as we are near the end; if we had been at the beginning, or in the middle, I should have demurred to your request; 
but now, in accordance with your desire, let us begin with the longer way; while we are fresh, we shall get on better. And now attend to the division. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let me hear. 
Ξένος
τὰ πεζὰ ἡμῖν τῶν ἡμέρων, ὅσαπερ ἀγελαῖα, διῃρημένα ἐστὶ φύσει δίχα. 
STRANGER:
The tame walking herding animals are distributed by nature into two classes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνι; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Upon what principle? 
Ξένος
τῷ τῶν μὲν τὴν γένεσιν ἄκερων εἶναι, τῶν δὲ κερασφόρον. 
STRANGER:
The one grows horns; and the other is without horns. 
(265c) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly. 
Ξένος
τὴν δὴ πεζονομικὴν διελὼν ἀπόδος ἑκατέρῳ τῷ μέρει λόγῳ χρώμενος. ἂν γὰρ ὀνομάζειν αὐτὰ βουληθῇς, ἔσται σοι περιπεπλεγμένον μᾶλλον τοῦ δέοντος. 
STRANGER:
Suppose that you divide the science which manages pedestrian animals into two corresponding parts, and define them; for if you try to invent names for them, you will find the intricacy too great. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς οὖν χρὴ λέγειν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How must I speak of them, then? 
Ξένος
ὧδε: τῆς πεζονομικῆς ἐπιστήμης δίχα διαιρεθείσης τὸ μόριον θάτερον ἐπὶ τῷ κερασφόρῳ μέρει τῷ τῆς ἀγέλης ἐπιτετάχθαι, τὸ δὲ ἕτερον ἐπὶ τῷ τῆς ἀκεράτου. (265d) 
STRANGER:
In this way: let the science of managing pedestrian animals be divided into two parts, and one part assigned to the horned herd, and the other to the herd that has no horns. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ταῦτ᾽ ἔστω ταύτῃ λεχθέντα: πάντως γὰρ ἱκανῶς δεδήλωται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
All that you say has been abundantly proved, and may therefore be assumed. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ὅ γε βασιλεὺς ἡμῖν αὖ καταφανὴς ὅτι κολοβὸν ἀγέλην τινὰ κεράτων νομεύει. 
STRANGER:
The king is clearly the shepherd of a polled herd, who have no horns. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὐ δῆλος; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is evident. 
Ξένος
ταύτην τοίνυν καταθραύσαντες τὸ γιγνόμενον αὐτῷ πειρώμεθα ἀποδοῦναι. 
STRANGER:
Shall we break up this hornless herd into sections, and endeavour to assign to him what is his? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
πότερον οὖν βούλει τῷ σχιστῷ τε καὶ τῷ καλουμένῳ μώνυχι διαιρεῖν αὐτὴν ἢ τῇ κοινογονίᾳ τε καὶ ἰδιογονίᾳ; μανθάνεις γάρ που. 
STRANGER:
Shall we distinguish them by their having or not having cloven feet, or by their mixing or not mixing the breed? You know what I mean. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; (265e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
ὅτι τὸ μὲν τῶν ἵππων καὶ ὄνων πέφυκεν ἐξ ἀλλήλων γεννᾶν. 
STRANGER:
I mean that horses and asses naturally breed from one another. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τὸ δέ γε λοιπὸν ἔτι τῆς λείας ἀγέλης τῶν ἡμέρων ἀμιγὲς γένει πρὸς ἄλληλα. 
STRANGER:
But the remainder of the hornless herd of tame animals will not mix the breed. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽; ὁ πολιτικὸς ἄρ᾽ ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχειν φαίνεται πότερα κοινογενοῦς φύσεως ἤ τινος ἰδιογενοῦς; 
STRANGER:
And of which has the Statesman charge,--of the mixed or of the unmixed race? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον ὅτι τῆς ἀμείκτου. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly of the unmixed. 
Ξένος
ταύτην δὴ δεῖ καθάπερ τὰ ἔμπροσθεν, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἡμᾶς δίχα διαστέλλειν. 
STRANGER:
I suppose that we must divide this again as before. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δεῖ γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
We must. 
(266a) Ξένος
καὶ μὴν τό γε ζῷον, ὅσον ἥμερον καὶ ἀγελαῖον, σχεδὸν πλὴν γενοῖν δυοῖν πᾶν ἤδη κατακεκερμάτισται. τὸ γὰρ τῶν κυνῶν οὐκ ἐπάξιον καταριθμεῖν γένος ὡς ἐν ἀγελαίοις θρέμμασιν. 
STRANGER:
Every tame and herding animal has now been split up, with the exception of two species; for I hardly think that dogs should be reckoned among gregarious animals. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐ γὰρ οὖν. ἀλλὰ τίνι δὴ τὼ δύο διαιροῦμεν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not; but how shall we divide the two remaining species? 
Ξένος
ὧιπερ καὶ δίκαιόν γε Θεαίτητόν τε καὶ σὲ διανέμειν, ἐπειδὴ καὶ γεωμετρίας ἅπτεσθον. 
STRANGER:
There is a measure of difference which may be appropriately employed by you and Theaetetus, who are students of geometry. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τῷ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is that? 
Ξένος
τῇ διαμέτρῳ δήπου καὶ πάλιν τῇ τῆς διαμέτρου διαμέτρῳ. 
STRANGER:
The diameter; and, again, the diameter of a diameter. (Compare Meno.) 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς εἶπες; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
(266b) Ξένος
ἡ φύσις, ἣν τὸ γένος ἡμῶν τῶν ἀνθρώπων κέκτηται, μῶν ἄλλως πως εἰς τὴν πορείαν πέφυκεν ἢ καθάπερ ἡ διάμετρος ἡ δυνάμει δίπους; 
STRANGER:
How does man walk, but as a diameter whose power is two feet? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκ ἄλλως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Just so. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ἥ γε τοῦ λοιποῦ γένους πάλιν ἐστὶ κατὰ δύναμιν αὖ τῆς ἡμετέρας δυνάμεως διάμετρος, εἴπερ δυοῖν γέ ἐστι ποδοῖν δὶς πεφυκυῖα. 
STRANGER:
And the power of the remaining kind, being the power of twice two feet, may be said to be the diameter of our diameter. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὐκ ἔστι; καὶ δὴ καὶ σχεδὸν ὃ βούλει δηλοῦν μανθάνω. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly; and now I think that I pretty nearly understand you. 
Ξένος
πρὸς δὴ τούτοις ἕτερον αὖ τι τῶν πρὸς γέλωτα (266c) εὐδοκιμησάντων ἄν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἆρα καθορῶμεν ἡμῖν γεγονὸς ἐν τοῖς διῃρημένοις; 
STRANGER:
In these divisions, Socrates, I descry what would make another famous jest. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
τἀνθρώπινον ἡμῶν ἅμα γένος συνειληχὸς καὶ συνδεδραμηκὸς γένει τῷ τῶν ὄντων γενναιοτάτῳ καὶ ἅμα εὐχερεστάτῳ. 
STRANGER:
Human beings have come out in the same class with the freest and airiest of creation, and have been running a race with them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καθορῶ καὶ μάλ᾽ ἀτόπως συμβαῖνον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I remark that very singular coincidence. 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽; οὐκ εἰκὸς ὕστατα ἀφικνεῖσθαι τὰ βραδύτατα; 
STRANGER:
And would you not expect the slowest to arrive last? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί, τοῦτό γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Indeed I should. 
Ξένος
τόδε δὲ οὐκ ἐννοοῦμεν, ὡς ἔτι γελοιότερος ὁ βασιλεὺς φαίνεται μετὰ τῆς ἀγέλης συνδιαθέων καὶ σύνδρομα (266d) πεπορευμένος τῷ τῶν ἀνδρῶν αὖ πρὸς τὸν εὐχερῆ βίον ἄριστα γεγυμνασμένῳ; 
STRANGER:
And there is a still more ridiculous consequence, that the king is found running about with the herd and in close competition with the bird-catcher, who of all mankind is most of an adept at the airy life. (Plato is here introducing a new subdivision, i.e. that of bipeds into men and birds. Others however refer the passage to the division into quadrupeds and bipeds, making pigs compete with human beings and the pig-driver with the king. According to this explanation we must translate the words above, 'freest and airiest of creation,' 'worthiest and laziest of creation.') 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
νῦν γάρ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐκεῖνό ἐστι καταφανὲς μᾶλλον τὸ ῥηθὲν τότ᾽ ἐν τῇ περὶ τὸν σοφιστὴν ζητήσει. 
STRANGER:
Then here, Socrates, is still clearer evidence of the truth of what was said in the enquiry about the Sophist? (Compare Sophist.) 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
ὅτι τῇ τοιᾷδε μεθόδῳ τῶν λόγων οὔτε σεμνοτέρου μᾶλλον ἐμέλησεν ἢ μή, τόν τε σμικρότερον οὐδὲν ἠτίμακε πρὸ τοῦ μείζονος, ἀεὶ δὲ καθ᾽ αὑτὴν περαίνει τἀληθέστατον. 
STRANGER:
That the dialectical method is no respecter of persons, and does not set the great above the small, but always arrives in her own way at the truest result. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικεν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν μετὰ τοῦτο, ἵνα μή με φθῇς ἐρωτήσας τὴν (266e) βραχυτέραν ὁδὸν ἥτις τότε ἦν ἐπὶ τὸν τοῦ βασιλέως ὅρον, αὐτός σοι πρότερον ἔλθω; 
STRANGER:
And now, I will not wait for you to ask, but will of my own accord take you by the shorter road to the definition of a king. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
σφόδρα γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
λέγω δὴ δεῖν τότε εὐθὺς τὸ πεζὸν τῷ δίποδι πρὸς τὸ τετράπουν γένος διανεῖμαι, κατιδόντα δὲ τἀνθρώπινον ἔτι μόνῳ τῷ πτηνῷ συνειληχὸς τὴν δίποδα ἀγέλην πάλιν τῷ ψιλῷ καὶ τῷ πτεροφυεῖ τέμνειν, τμηθείσης δὲ αὐτῆς καὶ τότ᾽ ἤδη τῆς ἀνθρωπονομικῆς δηλωθείσης τέχνης, φέροντα τὸν πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλικὸν οἷον ἡνίοχον εἰς αὐτὴν ἐνστήσαντα, παραδοῦναι τὰς τῆς πόλεως ἡνίας ὡς οἰκείας καὶ αὐτῷ ταύτης οὔσης τῆς ἐπιστήμης. 
STRANGER:
I say that we should have begun at first by dividing land animals into biped and quadruped; and since the winged herd, and that alone, comes out in the same class with man, we should divide bipeds into those which have feathers and those which have not, and when they have been divided, and the art of the management of mankind is brought to light, the time will have come to produce our Statesman and ruler, and set him like a charioteer in his place, and hand over to him the reins of state, for that too is a vocation which belongs to him. 
(267a) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς καὶ καθαπερεὶ χρέος ἀπέδωκάς μοι τὸν λόγον, προσθεὶς τὴν ἐκτροπὴν οἷον τόκον καὶ ἀναπληρώσας αὐτόν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good; you have paid me the debt,--I mean, that you have completed the argument, and I suppose that you added the digression by way of interest. (Compare Republic.) 
Ξένος
φέρε δὴ καὶ συνείρωμεν ἐπανελθόντες ἐπὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν μέχρι τῆς τελευτῆς τὸν λόγον τοῦ ὀνόματος τῆς τοῦ πολιτικοῦ τέχνης. 
STRANGER:
Then now, let us go back to the beginning, and join the links, which together make the definition of the name of the Statesman's art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
τῆς γνωστικῆς τοίνυν ἐπιστήμης ἡμῖν ἦν κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς μέρος ἐπιτακτικόν: τούτου δὲ ἀπεικασθὲν τὸ μόριον αὐτεπιτακτικὸν (267b) ἐρρήθη. ζῳοτροφικὴ δὲ πάλιν αὐτεπιτακτικῆς οὐ τὸ σμικρότατον τῶν γενῶν ἀπεσχίζετο: καὶ ζῳοτροφικῆς εἶδος ἀγελαιοτροφικόν, ἀγελαιοτροφικοῦ δ᾽ αὖ πεζονομικόν: τοῦ δὲ πεζονομικοῦ μάλιστα ἀπετέμνετο τέχνη τῆς ἀκεράτου φύσεως θρεπτική. 
ταύτης δ᾽ αὖ τὸ μέρος οὐκ ἔλαττον τριπλοῦν συμπλέκειν ἀναγκαῖον, ἂν εἰς ἕν τις αὐτὸ ὄνομα συναγαγεῖν βουληθῇ, γενέσεως ἀμείκτου νομευτικὴν ἐπιστήμην προσαγορεύων. (267c) τὸ δ᾽ ἀπὸ τούτου τμῆμα, ἐπὶ ποίμνῃ δίποδι μέρος ἀνθρωπονομικὸν ἔτι λειφθὲν μόνον, τοῦτ᾽ αὐτό ἐστιν ἤδη τὸ ζητηθέν, ἅμα βασιλικὸν ταὐτὸν κληθὲν καὶ πολιτικόν. 
STRANGER:
The science of pure knowledge had, as we said originally, a part which was the science of rule or command, and from this was derived another part, which was called command-for-self, on the analogy of selling-for-self; an important section of this was the management of living animals, and this again was further limited to the management of them in herds; and again in herds of pedestrian animals. 
The chief division of the latter was the art of managing pedestrian animals which are without horns; this again has a part which can only be comprehended under one term by joining together three names--shepherding pure-bred animals. The only further subdivision is the art of man-herding,--this has to do with bipeds, and is what we were seeking after, and have now found, being at once the royal and political. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To be sure. 
Ξένος
ἆρά γ᾽, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀληθῶς ἡμῖν τοῦτο καθάπερ σὺ νῦν εἴρηκας οὕτως ἐστὶ καὶ πεπραγμένον; 
STRANGER:
And do you think, Socrates, that we really have done as you say? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
τὸ παντάπασιν ἱκανῶς εἰρῆσθαι τὸ προτεθέν; ἢ τοῦτ᾽ αὐτὸ καὶ μάλιστα ἡ ζήτησις ἐλλείπει, τὸ τὸν λόγον (267d) εἰρῆσθαι μέν πως, οὐ μὴν παντάπασί γε τελέως ἀπειργάσθαι; 
STRANGER:
Do you think, I mean, that we have really fulfilled our intention?--There has been a sort of discussion, and yet the investigation seems to me not to be perfectly worked out: this is where the enquiry fails. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς εἶπες; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I do not understand. 
Ξένος
ἐγὼ νῷν πειράσομαι τοῦτ᾽ αὐτὸ ὃ διανοοῦμαι νῦν ἔτι μᾶλλον δηλῶσαι. 
STRANGER:
I will try to make the thought, which is at this moment present in my mind, clearer to us both. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγοις ἄν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let me hear. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν τῶν νομευτικῶν ἡμῖν πολλῶν φανεισῶν ἄρτι τεχνῶν μία τις ἦν ἡ πολιτικὴ καὶ μιᾶς τινος ἀγέλης ἐπιμέλεια; 
STRANGER:
There were many arts of shepherding, and one of them was the political, which had the charge of one particular herd? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
ταύτην δέ γε διώριζεν ὁ λόγος οὐχ ἵππων εἶναι τροφὸν οὐδ᾽ ἄλλων θηρίων, ἀλλ᾽ ἀνθρώπων κοινοτροφικὴν ἐπιστήμην. 
STRANGER:
And this the argument defined to be the art of rearing, not horses or other brutes, but the art of rearing man collectively? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
(267e) Ξένος
τὸ δὴ τῶν νομέων πάντων διάφορον καὶ τὸ τῶν βασιλέων θεασώμεθα. 
STRANGER:
Note, however, a difference which distinguishes the king from all other shepherds. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To what do you refer? 
Ξένος
εἴ τις τῶν ἄλλων τῳ, τέχνης ἄλλης ὄνομα ἔχων, κοινῇ τῆς ἀγέλης σύντροφος εἶναί φησι καὶ προσποιεῖται. 
STRANGER:
I want to ask, whether any one of the other herdsmen has a rival who professes and claims to share with him in the management of the herd? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς φῄς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
οἷον οἱ ἔμποροι καὶ γεωργοὶ καὶ σιτουργοὶ πάντες, καὶ πρὸς τούτοις γυμνασταὶ καὶ τὸ τῶν ἰατρῶν γένος, οἶσθ᾽ ὅτι τοῖς περὶ τὰ ἀνθρώπινα νομεῦσιν, οὓς πολιτικοὺς ἐκαλέσαμεν, (268a) παντάπασι τῷ λόγῳ διαμάχοιντ᾽ ἂν οὗτοι σύμπαντες, ὡς σφεῖς τῆς τροφῆς ἐπιμελοῦνται τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης, οὐ μόνον ἀγελαίων ἀνθρώπων ἀλλὰ καὶ τῆς τῶν ἀρχόντων αὐτῶν; 
STRANGER:
I mean to say that merchants, husbandmen, providers of food, and also training-masters and physicians, will all contend with the herdsmen of humanity, whom we call Statesmen, declaring that they themselves have the care of rearing or managing mankind, and that they rear not only the common herd, but also the rulers themselves. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς ἂν λέγοιεν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Are they not right in saying so? 
Ξένος
ἴσως. καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ἐπισκεψόμεθα, τόδε δὲ ἴσμεν, ὅτι βουκόλῳ γε οὐδεὶς ἀμφισβητήσει περὶ τούτων οὐδενός, ἀλλ᾽ αὐτὸς τῆς ἀγέλης τροφὸς ὁ βουφορβός, αὐτὸς ἰατρός, αὐτὸς οἷον νυμφευτὴς καὶ περὶ τοὺς τῶν γιγνομένων τόκους (268b) καὶ λοχείας μόνος ἐπιστήμων τῆς μαιευτικῆς. 
ἔτι τοίνυν παιδιᾶς καὶ μουσικῆς ἐφ᾽ ὅσον αὐτοῦ τὰ θρέμματα φύσει μετείληφεν, οὐκ ἄλλος κρείττων παραμυθεῖσθαι καὶ κηλῶν πραΰνειν, μετά τε ὀργάνων καὶ ψιλῷ τῷ στόματι τὴν τῆς αὑτοῦ ποίμνης ἄριστα μεταχειριζόμενος μουσικήν. καὶ δὴ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων πέρι νομέων ὁ αὐτὸς τρόπος. ἦ γάρ; 
STRANGER:
Very likely they may be, and we will consider their claim. But we are certain of this,--that no one will raise a similar claim as against the herdsman, who is allowed on all hands to be the sole and only feeder and physician of his herd; he is also their match-maker and accoucheur; no one else knows that department of science. 
And he is their merry-maker and musician, as far as their nature is susceptible of such influences, and no one can console and soothe his own herd better than he can, either with the natural tones of his voice or with instruments. And the same may be said of tenders of animals in general. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
πῶς οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ὀρθὸς φανεῖται καὶ ἀκέραιος (268c) ὁ περὶ τοῦ βασιλέως, ὅταν αὐτὸν νομέα καὶ τροφὸν ἀγέλης ἀνθρωπίνης θῶμεν μόνον ἐκκρίνοντες μυρίων ἄλλων ἀμφισβητούντων; 
STRANGER:
But if this is as you say, can our argument about the king be true and unimpeachable? Were we right in selecting him out of ten thousand other claimants to be the shepherd and rearer of the human flock? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Surely not. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς ὀλίγον ἔμπροσθεν ἐφοβήθημεν ὑποπτεύσαντες μὴ λέγοντες μέν τι τυγχάνοιμεν σχῆμα βασιλικόν, οὐ μὴν ἀπειργασμένοι γε εἶμέν πω δι᾽ ἀκριβείας τὸν πολιτικόν, ἕως ἂν τοὺς περικεχυμένους αὐτῷ καὶ τῆς συννομῆς αὐτῷ ἀντιποιουμένους περιελόντες καὶ χωρίσαντες ἀπ᾽ ἐκείνων καθαρὸν μόνον αὐτὸν ἀποφήνωμεν; (268d) 
STRANGER:
Had we not reason just to now to apprehend, that although we may have described a sort of royal form, we have not as yet accurately worked out the true image of the Statesman? and that we cannot reveal him as he truly is in his own nature, until we have disengaged and separated him from those who hang about him and claim to share in his prerogatives? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τοῦτο τοίνυν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡμῖν ποιητέον, εἰ μὴ μέλλομεν ἐπὶ τῷ τέλει καταισχῦναι τὸν λόγον. 
STRANGER:
And that, Socrates, is what we must do, if we do not mean to bring disgrace upon the argument at its close. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδαμῶς τοῦτό γε δραστέον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
We must certainly avoid that. 
Ξένος
πάλιν τοίνυν ἐξ ἄλλης ἀρχῆς δεῖ καθ᾽ ἑτέραν ὁδὸν πορευθῆναί τινα. 
STRANGER:
Then let us make a new beginning, and travel by a different road. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποίαν δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What road? 
Ξένος
σχεδὸν παιδιὰν ἐγκερασαμένους: συχνῷ γὰρ μέρει δεῖ μεγάλου μύθου προσχρήσασθαι, καὶ τὸ λοιπὸν δή, καθάπερ (268e) ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν, μέρος ἀεὶ μέρους ἀφαιρουμένους ἐπ᾽ ἄκρον ἀφικνεῖσθαι τὸ ζητούμενον. οὐκοῦν χρή; 
STRANGER:
I think that we may have a little amusement; there is a famous tale, of which a good portion may with advantage be interwoven, and then we may resume our series of divisions, and proceed in the old path until we arrive at the desired summit. Shall we do as I say? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
ἀλλὰ δὴ τῷ μύθῳ μου πάνυ πρόσεχε τὸν νοῦν, καθάπερ οἱ παῖδες: πάντως οὐ πολλὰ ἐκφεύγεις παιδιὰς ἔτη. 
STRANGER:
Listen, then, to a tale which a child would love to hear; and you are not too old for childish amusement. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγοις ἄν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let me hear. 
Ξένος
ἦν τοίνυν καὶ ἔτι ἔσται τῶν πάλαι λεχθέντων πολλά τε ἄλλα καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ περὶ τὴν Ἀτρέως τε καὶ Θυέστου λεχθεῖσαν ἔριν φάσμα. ἀκήκοας γάρ που καὶ ἀπομνημονεύεις ὅ φασι γενέσθαι τότε. 
STRANGER:
There did really happen, and will again happen, like many other events of which ancient tradition has preserved the record, the portent which is traditionally said to have occurred in the quarrel of Atreus and Thyestes. You have heard, no doubt, and remember what they say happened at that time? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ περὶ τῆς χρυσῆς ἀρνὸς ἴσως σημεῖον φράζεις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I suppose you to mean the token of the birth of the golden lamb. 
(269a) Ξένος
οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ τὸ περὶ τῆς μεταβολῆς δύσεώς τε καὶ ἀνατολῆς ἡλίου καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἄστρων, ὡς ἄρα ὅθεν μὲν ἀνατέλλει νῦν εἰς τοῦτον τότε τὸν τόπον ἐδύετο, ἀνέτελλε δ᾽ ἐκ τοῦ ἐναντίου, τότε δὲ δὴ μαρτυρήσας ἄρα ὁ θεὸς Ἀτρεῖ μετέβαλεν αὐτὸ ἐπὶ τὸ νῦν σχῆμα. 
STRANGER:
No, not that; but another part of the story, which tells how the sun and the stars once rose in the west, and set in the east, and that the god reversed their motion, and gave them that which they now have as a testimony to the right of Atreus. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγεται γὰρ οὖν δὴ καὶ τοῦτο. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes; there is that legend also. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν αὖ καὶ τήν γε βασιλείαν ἣν ἦρξε Κρόνος πολλῶν ἀκηκόαμεν. 
STRANGER:
Again, we have been often told of the reign of Cronos. 
(269b) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πλείστων μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, very often. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; τὸ τοὺς ἔμπροσθεν φύεσθαι γηγενεῖς καὶ μὴ ἐξ ἀλλήλων γεννᾶσθαι; 
STRANGER:
Did you ever hear that the men of former times were earth-born, and not begotten of one another? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ τοῦτο ἓν τῶν πάλαι λεχθέντων. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, that is another old tradition. 
Ξένος
ταῦτα τοίνυν ἔστι μὲν σύμπαντα ἐκ ταὐτοῦ πάθους, καὶ πρὸς τούτοις ἕτερα μυρία καὶ τούτων ἔτι θαυμαστότερα, διὰ δὲ χρόνου πλῆθος τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν ἀπέσβηκε, τὰ δὲ διεσπαρμένα εἴρηται χωρὶς ἕκαστα ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων. ὃ δ᾽ ἐστὶν πᾶσι (269c) τούτοις αἴτιον τὸ πάθος οὐδεὶς εἴρηκεν, νῦν δὲ δὴ λεκτέον: εἰς γὰρ τὴν τοῦ βασιλέως ἀπόδειξιν πρέψει ῥηθέν. 
STRANGER:
All these stories, and ten thousand others which are still more wonderful, have a common origin; many of them have been lost in the lapse of ages, or are repeated only in a disconnected form; but the origin of them is what no one has told, and may as well be told now; for the tale is suited to throw light on the nature of the king. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κάλλιστ᾽ εἶπες, καὶ λέγε μηδὲν ἐλλείπων. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good; and I hope that you will give the whole story, and leave out nothing. 
Ξένος
ἀκούοις ἄν. τὸ γὰρ πᾶν τόδε τοτὲ μὲν αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς συμποδηγεῖ πορευόμενον καὶ συγκυκλεῖ, τοτὲ δὲ ἀνῆκεν, ὅταν αἱ περίοδοι τοῦ προσήκοντος αὐτῷ μέτρον εἰλήφωσιν ἤδη χρόνου, τὸ δὲ πάλιν αὐτόματον εἰς τἀναντία περιάγεται, (269d) ζῷον ὂν καὶ φρόνησιν εἰληχὸς ἐκ τοῦ συναρμόσαντος αὐτὸ κατ᾽ ἀρχάς. τοῦτο δὲ αὐτῷ τὸ ἀνάπαλιν ἰέναι διὰ τόδ᾽ ἐξ ἀνάγκης ἔμφυτον γέγονε. 
STRANGER:
Listen, then. There is a time when God himself guides and helps to roll the world in its course; and there is a time, on the completion of a certain cycle, when he lets go, and the world being a living creature, and having originally received intelligence from its author and creator, turns about and by an inherent necessity revolves in the opposite direction. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
διὰ τὸ ποῖον δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why is that? 
Ξένος
τὸ κατὰ ταὐτὰ καὶ ὡσαύτως ἔχειν ἀεὶ καὶ ταὐτὸν εἶναι τοῖς πάντων θειοτάτοις προσήκει μόνοις, σώματος δὲ φύσις οὐ ταύτης τῆς τάξεως. 
ὃν δὲ οὐρανὸν καὶ κόσμον ἐπωνομάκαμεν, πολλῶν μὲν καὶ μακαρίων παρὰ τοῦ γεννήσαντος μετείληφεν, ἀτὰρ οὖν δὴ κεκοινώνηκέ γε (269e) καὶ σώματος: ὅθεν αὐτῷ μεταβολῆς ἀμοίρῳ γίγνεσθαι διὰ παντὸς ἀδύνατον, κατὰ δύναμίν γε μὴν ὅτι μάλιστα ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ κατὰ ταὐτὰ μίαν φορὰν κινεῖται: διὸ τὴν ἀνακύκλησιν εἴληχεν, ὅτι σμικροτάτην τῆς αὑτοῦ κινήσεως παράλλαξιν.  αὐτὸ δὲ ἑαυτὸ στρέφειν ἀεὶ σχεδὸν οὐδενὶ δυνατὸν πλὴν τῷ τῶν κινουμένων αὖ πάντων ἡγουμένῳ: κινεῖν δὲ τούτῳ τοτὲ μὲν ἄλλως, αὖθις δὲ ἐναντίως οὐ θέμις.  ἐκ πάντων δὴ τούτων τὸν κόσμον μήτε αὐτὸν χρὴ φάναι στρέφειν ἑαυτὸν ἀεί, μήτ᾽ αὖ ὅλον ἀεὶ ὑπὸ θεοῦ στρέφεσθαι διττὰς καὶ ἐναντίας (270a) περιαγωγάς, μήτ᾽ αὖ δύο τινὲ θεὼ φρονοῦντε ἑαυτοῖς ἐναντία στρέφειν αὐτόν, ἀλλ᾽ ὅπερ ἄρτι ἐρρήθη καὶ μόνον λοιπόν, τοτὲ μὲν ὑπ᾽ ἄλλης συμποδηγεῖσθαι θείας αἰτίας, τὸ ζῆν πάλιν ἐπικτώμενον καὶ λαμβάνοντα ἀθανασίαν ἐπισκευαστὴν παρὰ τοῦ δημιουργοῦ, τοτὲ δ᾽ ὅταν ἀνεθῇ, δι᾽ ἑαυτοῦ αὐτὸν ἰέναι, κατὰ καιρὸν ἀφεθέντα τοιοῦτον, ὥστε ἀνάπαλιν πορεύεσθαι πολλὰς περιόδων μυριάδας διὰ δὴ τὸ μέγιστον ὂν καὶ ἰσορροπώτατον ἐπὶ μικροτάτου βαῖνον ποδὸς ἰέναι. (270b) 
STRANGER:
Why, because only the most divine things of all remain ever unchanged and the same, and body is not included in this class. 
Heaven and the universe, as we have termed them, although they have been endowed by the Creator with many glories, partake of a bodily nature, and therefore cannot be entirely free from perturbation. But their motion is, as far as possible, single and in the same place, and of the same kind; and is therefore only subject to a reversal, which is the least alteration possible.  For the lord of all moving things is alone able to move of himself; and to think that he moves them at one time in one direction and at another time in another is blasphemy.  Hence we must not say that the world is either self-moved always, or all made to go round by God in two opposite courses; or that two Gods, having opposite purposes, make it move round. But as I have already said (and this is the only remaining alternative) the world is guided at one time by an external power which is divine and receives fresh life and immortality from the renewing hand of the Creator, and again, when let go, moves spontaneously, being set free at such a time as to have, during infinite cycles of years, a reverse movement: this is due to its perfect balance, to its vast size, and to the fact that it turns on the smallest pivot. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται γοῦν δὴ καὶ μάλα εἰκότως εἰρῆσθαι πάνθ᾽ ὅσα διελήλυθας. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Your account of the world seems to be very reasonable indeed. 
Ξένος
λογισάμενοι δὴ συννοήσωμεν τὸ πάθος ἐκ τῶν νῦν λεχθέντων, ὃ πάντων ἔφαμεν εἶναι τῶν θαυμαστῶν αἴτιον. ἔστι γὰρ οὖν δὴ τοῦτ᾽ αὐτό. 
STRANGER:
Let us now reflect and try to gather from what has been said the nature of the phenomenon which we affirmed to be the cause of all these wonders. It is this. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
τὸ τὴν τοῦ παντὸς φορὰν τοτὲ μὲν ἐφ᾽ ἃ νῦν κυκλεῖται φέρεσθαι, τοτὲ δ᾽ ἐπὶ τἀναντία. 
STRANGER:
The reversal which takes place from time to time of the motion of the universe. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How is that the cause? 
Ξένος
ταύτην τὴν μεταβολὴν ἡγεῖσθαι δεῖ τῶν περὶ τὸν (270c) οὐρανὸν γιγνομένων τροπῶν πασῶν εἶναι μεγίστην καὶ τελεωτάτην τροπήν. 
STRANGER:
Of all changes of the heavenly motions, we may consider this to be the greatest and most complete. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικε γοῦν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I should imagine so. 
Ξένος
μεγίστας τοίνυν καὶ μεταβολὰς χρὴ νομίζειν γίγνεσθαι τότε τοῖς ἐντὸς ἡμῖν οἰκοῦσιν αὐτοῦ. 
STRANGER:
And it may be supposed to result in the greatest changes to the human beings who are the inhabitants of the world at the time. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ τοῦτο εἰκός. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Such changes would naturally occur. 
Ξένος
μεταβολὰς δὲ μεγάλας καὶ πολλὰς καὶ παντοίας συμφερομένας ἆρ᾽ οὐκ ἴσμεν τὴν τῶν ζῴων φύσιν ὅτι χαλεπῶς ἀνέχεται; 
STRANGER:
And animals, as we know, survive with difficulty great and serious changes of many different kinds when they come upon them at once. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
φθοραὶ τοίνυν ἐξ ἀνάγκης τότε μέγισται συμβαίνουσι τῶν τε ἄλλων ζῴων, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων (270d) γένος ὀλίγον τι περιλείπεται: περὶ δὲ τούτους ἄλλα τε παθήματα πολλὰ καὶ θαυμαστὰ καὶ καινὰ συμπίπτει, μέγιστον δὲ τόδε καὶ συνεπόμενον τῇ τοῦ παντὸς ἀνειλίξει τότε, ὅταν ἡ τῆς νῦν καθεστηκυίας ἐναντία γίγνηται τροπή. 
STRANGER:
Hence there necessarily occurs a great destruction of them, which extends also to the life of man; few survivors of the race are left, and those who remain become the subjects of several novel and remarkable phenomena, and of one in particular, which takes place at the time when the transition is made to the cycle opposite to that in which we are now living. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
ἣν ἡλικίαν ἕκαστον εἶχε τῶν ζῴων, αὕτη πρῶτον μὲν ἔστη πάντων, καὶ ἐπαύσατο πᾶν ὅσον ἦν θνητὸν ἐπὶ τὸ γεραίτερον ἰδεῖν πορευόμενον, μεταβάλλον δὲ πάλιν ἐπὶ (270e) τοὐναντίον οἷον νεώτερον καὶ ἁπαλώτερον ἐφύετο: καὶ τῶν μὲν πρεσβυτέρων αἱ λευκαὶ τρίχες ἐμελαίνοντο, τῶν δ᾽ αὖ γενειώντων αἱ παρειαὶ λεαινόμεναι πάλιν ἐπὶ τὴν παρελθοῦσαν ὥραν ἕκαστον καθίστασαν, τῶν δὲ ἡβώντων τὰ σώματα λεαινόμενα καὶ σμικρότερα καθ᾽ ἡμέραν καὶ νύκτα ἑκάστην γιγνόμενα πάλιν εἰς τὴν τοῦ νεογενοῦς παιδὸς φύσιν ἀπῄει, κατά τε τὴν ψυχὴν καὶ κατὰ τὸ σῶμα ἀφομοιούμενα: τὸ δ᾽ ἐντεῦθεν ἤδη μαραινόμενα κομιδῇ τὸ πάμπαν ἐξηφανίζετο. 
τῶν δ᾽ αὖ βιαίως τελευτώντων ἐν τῷ τότε χρόνῳ τὸ τοῦ νεκροῦ σῶμα τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα πάσχον παθήματα διὰ (271a) τάχους ἄδηλον ἐν ὀλίγαις ἡμέραις διεφθείρετο. 
STRANGER:
The life of all animals first came to a standstill, and the mortal nature ceased to be or look older, and was then reversed and grew young and delicate; the white locks of the aged darkened again, and the cheeks the bearded man became smooth, and recovered their former bloom; the bodies of youths in their prime grew softer and smaller, continually by day and night returning and becoming assimilated to the nature of a newly-born child in mind as well as body; in the succeeding stage they wasted away and wholly disappeared. 
And the bodies of those who died by violence at that time quickly passed through the like changes, and in a few days were no more seen. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
γένεσις δὲ δὴ τίς τότ᾽ ἦν, ὦ ξένε, ζῴων; καὶ τίνα τρόπον ἐξ ἀλλήλων ἐγεννῶντο; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Then how, Stranger, were the animals created in those days; and in what way were they begotten of one another? 
Ξένος
δῆλον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι τὸ μὲν ἐξ ἀλλήλων οὐκ ἦν ἐν τῇ τότε φύσει γεννώμενον, τὸ δὲ γηγενὲς εἶναί ποτε γένος λεχθὲν τοῦτ᾽ ἦν τὸ κατ᾽ ἐκεῖνον τὸν χρόνον ἐκ γῆς πάλιν ἀναστρεφόμενον, ἀπεμνημονεύετο δὲ ὑπὸ τῶν ἡμετέρων προγόνων τῶν πρώτων, οἳ τελευτώσῃ μὲν τῇ προτέρᾳ (271b) περιφορᾷ τὸν ἑξῆς χρόνον ἐγειτόνουν, τῆσδε δὲ κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς ἐφύοντο: τούτων γὰρ οὗτοι κήρυκες ἐγένονθ᾽ ἡμῖν τῶν λόγων, οἳ νῦν ὑπὸ πολλῶν οὐκ ὀρθῶς ἀπιστοῦνται. 
τὸ γὰρ ἐντεῦθεν οἶμαι χρὴ συννοεῖν. ἑπόμενον γάρ ἐστι τῷ τοὺς πρεσβύτας ἐπὶ τὴν τοῦ παιδὸς ἰέναι φύσιν, ἐκ τῶν τετελευτηκότων αὖ, κειμένων δὲ ἐν γῇ, πάλιν ἐκεῖ συνισταμένους καὶ ἀναβιωσκομένους, ἕπεσθαι τῇ τροπῇ συνανακυκλουμένης εἰς τἀναντία τῆς γενέσεως, καὶ γηγενεῖς δὴ κατὰ τοῦτον τὸν (271c) λόγον ἐξ ἀνάγκης φυομένους, οὕτως ἔχειν τοὔνομα καὶ τὸν λόγον, ὅσους μὴ θεὸς αὐτῶν εἰς ἄλλην μοῖραν ἐκόμισεν. 
STRANGER:
It is evident, Socrates, that there was no such thing in the then order of nature as the procreation of animals from one another; the earth-born race, of which we hear in story, was the one which existed in those days--they rose again from the ground; and of this tradition, which is now-a-days often unduly discredited, our ancestors, who were nearest in point of time to the end of the last period and came into being at the beginning of this, are to us the heralds. 
And mark how consistent the sequel of the tale is; after the return of age to youth, follows the return of the dead, who are lying in the earth, to life; simultaneously with the reversal of the world the wheel of their generation has been turned back, and they are put together and rise and live in the opposite order, unless God has carried any of them away to some other lot. According to this tradition they of necessity sprang from the earth and have the name of earth-born, and so the above legend clings to them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν τοῦτό γε ἕπεται τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν. ἀλλὰ δὴ τὸν βίον ὃν ἐπὶ τῆς Κρόνου φῂς εἶναι δυνάμεως, πότερον ἐν ἐκείναις ἦν ταῖς τροπαῖς ἢ ἐν ταῖσδε; τὴν μὲν γὰρ τῶν ἄστρων τε καὶ ἡλίου μεταβολὴν δῆλον ὡς ἐν ἑκατέραις συμπίπτει ταῖς τροπαῖς γίγνεσθαι. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly that is quite consistent with what has preceded; but tell me, was the life which you said existed in the reign of Cronos in that cycle of the world, or in this? For the change in the course of the stars and the sun must have occurred in both. 
Ξένος
καλῶς τῷ λόγῳ συμπαρηκολούθηκας. ὃ δ᾽ ἤρου (271d) περὶ τοῦ πάντα αὐτόματα γίγνεσθαι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, ἥκιστα τῆς νῦν ἐστι καθεστηκυίας φορᾶς, ἀλλ᾽ ἦν καὶ τοῦτο τῆς ἔμπροσθεν. 
τότε γὰρ αὐτῆς πρῶτον τῆς κυκλήσεως ἦρχεν ἐπιμελούμενος ὅλης ὁ θεός, ὣς δ᾽ αὖ κατὰ τόπους ταὐτὸν τοῦτο, ὑπὸ θεῶν ἀρχόντων πάντ᾽ ἦν τὰ τοῦ κόσμου μέρη διειλημμένα: καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ ζῷα κατὰ γένη καὶ ἀγέλας οἷον νομῆς θεῖοι διειλήφεσαν δαίμονες, αὐτάρκης εἰς πάντα ἕκαστος ἑκάστοις (271e) ὢν οἷς αὐτὸς ἔνεμεν, ὥστε οὔτ᾽ ἄγριον ἦν οὐδὲν οὔτε ἀλλήλων ἐδωδαί, πόλεμός τε οὐκ ἐνῆν οὐδὲ στάσις τὸ παράπαν: ἄλλα θ᾽ ὅσα τῆς τοιαύτης ἐστὶ κατακοσμήσεως ἑπόμενα, μυρία ἂν εἴη λέγειν.  τὸ δ᾽ οὖν τῶν ἀνθρώπων λεχθὲν αὐτομάτου πέρι βίου διὰ τὸ τοιόνδε εἴρηται. θεὸς ἔνεμεν αὐτοὺς αὐτὸς ἐπιστατῶν, καθάπερ νῦν ἄνθρωποι, ζῷον ὂν ἕτερον θειότερον, ἄλλα γένη φαυλότερα αὑτῶν νομεύουσι: νέμοντος δὲ ἐκείνου πολιτεῖαί τε οὐκ ἦσαν οὐδὲ κτήσεις (272a) γυναικῶν καὶ παίδων: ἐκ γῆς γὰρ ἀνεβιώσκοντο πάντες, οὐδὲν μεμνημένοι τῶν πρόσθεν: ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν τοιαῦτα ἀπῆν πάντα, καρποὺς δὲ ἀφθόνους εἶχον ἀπό τε δένδρων καὶ πολλῆς ὕλης ἄλλης, οὐχ ὑπὸ γεωργίας φυομένους, ἀλλ᾽ αὐτομάτης ἀναδιδούσης τῆς γῆς.  γυμνοὶ δὲ καὶ ἄστρωτοι θυραυλοῦντες τὰ πολλὰ ἐνέμοντο: τὸ γὰρ τῶν ὡρῶν αὐτοῖς ἄλυπον ἐκέκρατο, μαλακὰς δὲ εὐνὰς εἶχον ἀναφυομένης ἐκ (272b) γῆς πόας ἀφθόνου. τὸν δὴ βίον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀκούεις μὲν τὸν τῶν ἐπὶ Κρόνου: τόνδε δ᾽ ὃν λόγος ἐπὶ Διὸς εἶναι, τὸν νυνί, παρὼν αὐτὸς ᾔσθησαι: κρῖναι δ᾽ αὐτοῖν τὸν εὐδαιμονέστερον ἆρ᾽ ἂν δύναιό τε καὶ ἐθελήσειας; 
STRANGER:
I see that you enter into my meaning;--no, that blessed and spontaneous life does not belong to the present cycle of the world, but to the previous one, in which God superintended the whole revolution of the universe; and the several parts the universe were distributed under the rule of certain inferior deities, as is the way in some places still. 
There were demigods, who were the shepherds of the various species and herds of animals, and each one was in all respects sufficient for those of whom he was the shepherd; neither was there any violence, or devouring of one another, or war or quarrel among them; and I might tell of ten thousand other blessings, which belonged to that dispensation.  The reason why the life of man was, as tradition says, spontaneous, is as follows: In those days God himself was their shepherd, and ruled over them, just as man, who is by comparison a divine being, still rules over the lower animals. Under him there were no forms of government or separate possession of women and children; for all men rose again from the earth, having no memory of the past. And although they had nothing of this sort, the earth gave them fruits in abundance, which grew on trees and shrubs unbidden, and were not planted by the hand of man.  And they dwelt naked, and mostly in the open air, for the temperature of their seasons was mild; and they had no beds, but lay on soft couches of grass, which grew plentifully out of the earth. Such was the life of man in the days of Cronos, Socrates; the character of our present life, which is said to be under Zeus, you know from your own experience. Can you, and will you, determine which of them you deem the happier? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Impossible. 
Ξένος
βούλει δῆτα ἐγώ σοι τρόπον τινὰ διακρίνω; 
STRANGER:
Then shall I determine for you as well as I can? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
εἰ μὲν τοίνυν οἱ τρόφιμοι τοῦ Κρόνου, παρούσης αὐτοῖς οὕτω πολλῆς σχολῆς καὶ δυνάμεως πρὸς τὸ μὴ μόνον ἀνθρώποις ἀλλὰ καὶ θηρίοις διὰ λόγων δύνασθαι συγγίγνεσθαι, (272c) κατεχρῶντο τούτοις σύμπασιν ἐπὶ φιλοσοφίαν, μετά τε θηρίων καὶ μετ᾽ ἀλλήλων ὁμιλοῦντες, καὶ πυνθανόμενοι παρὰ πάσης φύσεως εἴ τινά τις ἰδίαν δύναμιν ἔχουσα ᾔσθετό τι διάφορον τῶν ἄλλων εἰς συναγυρμὸν φρονήσεως, εὔκριτον ὅτι τῶν νῦν οἱ τότε μυρίῳ πρὸς εὐδαιμονίαν διέφερον: εἰ δ᾽ ἐμπιμπλάμενοι σίτων ἅδην καὶ ποτῶν διελέγοντο πρὸς ἀλλήλους καὶ τὰ θηρία μύθους οἷα δὴ καὶ τὰ νῦν περὶ αὐτῶν (272d) λέγονται, καὶ τοῦτο, ὥς γε κατὰ τὴν ἐμὴν δόξαν ἀποφήνασθαι, καὶ μάλ᾽ εὔκριτον. 
ὅμως δ᾽ οὖν ταῦτα μὲν ἀφῶμεν, ἕως ἂν ἡμῖν μηνυτής τις ἱκανὸς φανῇ, ποτέρως οἱ τότε τὰς ἐπιθυμίας εἶχον περί τε ἐπιστημῶν καὶ τῆς τῶν λόγων χρείας: οὗ δ᾽ ἕνεκα τὸν μῦθον ἠγείραμεν, τοῦτο λεκτέον, ἵνα τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν περαίνωμεν.  ἐπειδὴ γὰρ πάντων τούτων χρόνος ἐτελεώθη καὶ μεταβολὴν ἔδει γίγνεσθαι καὶ (272e) δὴ καὶ τὸ γήινον ἤδη πᾶν ἀνήλωτο γένος, πάσας ἑκάστης τῆς ψυχῆς τὰς γενέσεις ἀποδεδωκυίας, ὅσα ἦν ἑκάστῃ προσταχθὲν τοσαῦτα εἰς γῆν σπέρματα πεσούσης, τότε δὴ τοῦ παντὸς ὁ μὲν κυβερνήτης, οἷον πηδαλίων οἴακος ἀφέμενος, εἰς τὴν αὑτοῦ περιωπὴν ἀπέστη, τὸν δὲ δὴ κόσμον πάλιν ἀνέστρεφεν εἱμαρμένη τε καὶ σύμφυτος ἐπιθυμία.  πάντες οὖν οἱ κατὰ τοὺς τόπους συνάρχοντες τῷ μεγίστῳ δαίμονι θεοί, γνόντες ἤδη τὸ γιγνόμενον, ἀφίεσαν αὖ τὰ μέρη τοῦ (273a) κόσμου τῆς αὑτῶν ἐπιμελείας: ὁ δὲ μεταστρεφόμενος καὶ συμβάλλων, ἀρχῆς τε καὶ τελευτῆς ἐναντίαν ὁρμὴν ὁρμηθείς, σεισμὸν πολὺν ἐν ἑαυτῷ ποιῶν ἄλλην αὖ φθορὰν ζῴων παντοίων ἀπηργάσατο.  μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα προελθόντος ἱκανοῦ χρόνου, θορύβων τε καὶ ταραχῆς ἤδη παυόμενος καὶ τῶν σεισμῶν γαλήνης ἐπιλαβόμενος εἴς τε τὸν εἰωθότα δρόμον τὸν ἑαυτοῦ κατακοσμούμενος ᾔει, ἐπιμέλειαν καὶ κράτος ἔχων (273b) αὐτὸς τῶν ἐν αὑτῷ τε καὶ ἑαυτοῦ, τὴν τοῦ δημιουργοῦ καὶ πατρὸς ἀπομνημονεύων διδαχὴν εἰς δύναμιν.  κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς μὲν οὖν ἀκριβέστερον ἀπετέλει, τελευτῶν δὲ ἀμβλύτερον: τούτων δὲ αὐτῷ τὸ σωματοειδὲς τῆς συγκράσεως αἴτιον, τὸ τῆς πάλαι ποτὲ φύσεως σύντροφον, ὅτι πολλῆς ἦν μετέχον ἀταξίας πρὶν εἰς τὸν νῦν κόσμον ἀφικέσθαι.  παρὰ μὲν γὰρ τοῦ συνθέντος πάντα καλὰ κέκτηται: παρὰ δὲ τῆς ἔμπροσθεν (273c) ἕξεως, ὅσα χαλεπὰ καὶ ἄδικα ἐν οὐρανῷ γίγνεται, ταῦτα ἐξ ἐκείνης αὐτός τε ἔχει καὶ τοῖς ζῴοις ἐναπεργάζεται.  μετὰ μὲν οὖν τοῦ κυβερνήτου τὰ ζῷα τρέφων ἐν αὑτῷ σμικρὰ μὲν φλαῦρα, μεγάλα δὲ ἐνέτικτεν ἀγαθά: χωριζόμενος δὲ ἐκείνου τὸν ἐγγύτατα χρόνον ἀεὶ τῆς ἀφέσεως κάλλιστα πάντα διάγει, προϊόντος δὲ τοῦ χρόνου καὶ λήθης ἐγγιγνομένης ἐν αὐτῷ μᾶλλον καὶ δυναστεύει τὸ τῆς παλαιᾶς ἀναρμοστίας (273d) πάθος, τελευτῶντος δὲ ἐξανθεῖ τοῦ χρόνου καὶ σμικρὰ μὲν τἀγαθά, πολλὴν δὲ τὴν τῶν ἐναντίων κρᾶσιν ἐπεγκεραννύμενος ἐπὶ διαφθορᾶς κίνδυνον αὑτοῦ τε ἀφικνεῖται καὶ τῶν ἐν αὑτῷ.  διὸ δὴ καὶ τότ᾽ ἤδη θεὸς ὁ κοσμήσας αὐτόν, καθορῶν ἐν ἀπορίαις ὄντα, κηδόμενος ἵνα μὴ χειμασθεὶς ὑπὸ ταραχῆς διαλυθεὶς εἰς τὸν τῆς ἀνομοιότητος ἄπειρον ὄντα (273e) πόντον δύῃ, πάλιν ἔφεδρος αὐτοῦ τῶν πηδαλίων γιγνόμενος, τὰ νοσήσαντα καὶ λυθέντα ἐν τῇ καθ᾽ ἑαυτὸν προτέρᾳ περιόδῳ στρέψας, κοσμεῖ τε καὶ ἐπανορθῶν ἀθάνατον αὐτὸν καὶ ἀγήρων ἀπεργάζεται.  τοῦτο μὲν οὖν τέλος ἁπάντων εἴρηται: τὸ δ᾽ ἐπὶ τὴν τοῦ βασιλέως ἀπόδειξιν ἱκανὸν ἐκ τοῦ πρόσθεν ἁπτομένοις τοῦ λόγου: στρεφθέντος γὰρ αὖ τοῦ κόσμου τὴν ἐπὶ τὴν νῦν γένεσιν ὁδὸν τὸ τῆς ἡλικίας αὖ πάλιν ἵστατο καὶ καινὰ τἀναντία ἀπεδίδου τοῖς τότε.  τὰ μὲν γὰρ ὑπὸ σμικρότητος ὀλίγου δέοντα ἠφανίσθαι τῶν ζῴων ηὐξάνετο, τὰ δ᾽ ἐκ γῆς νεογενῆ σώματα πολιὰ φύντα πάλιν ἀποθνῄσκοντα εἰς γῆν κατῄει.  καὶ τἆλλά τε πάντα μετέβαλλε, (274a) ἀπομιμούμενα καὶ συνακολουθοῦντα τῷ τοῦ παντὸς παθήματι, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ τῆς κυήσεως καὶ γεννήσεως καὶ τροφῆς μίμημα συνείπετο τοῖς πᾶσιν ὑπ᾽ ἀνάγκης: οὐ γὰρ ἐξῆν ἔτ᾽ ἐν γῇ δι᾽ ἑτέρων συνιστάντων φύεσθαι ζῷον, ἀλλὰ καθάπερ τῷ κόσμῳ προσετέτακτο αὐτοκράτορα εἶναι τῆς αὑτοῦ πορείας, οὕτω δὴ κατὰ ταὐτὰ καὶ τοῖς μέρεσιν αὐτοῖς δι᾽ αὑτῶν, καθ᾽ ὅσον οἷόν τ᾽ ἦν, φύειν τε καὶ γεννᾶν καὶ τρέφειν προσετάττετο ὑπὸ τῆς (274b) ὁμοίας ἀγωγῆς.  οὗ δὲ ἕνεκα ὁ λόγος ὥρμηκε πᾶς, ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ νῦν ἐσμὲν ἤδη. περὶ μὲν γὰρ τῶν ἄλλων θηρίων πολλὰ ἂν καὶ μακρὰ διεξελθεῖν γίγνοιτο, ἐξ ὧν ἕκαστα καὶ δι᾽ ἃς αἰτίας μεταβέβληκε: περὶ δὲ ἀνθρώπων βραχύτερα καὶ μᾶλλον προσήκοντα.  τῆς γὰρ τοῦ κεκτημένου καὶ νέμοντος ἡμᾶς δαίμονος ἀπερημωθέντες ἐπιμελείας, τῶν πολλῶν αὖ θηρίων, ὅσα χαλεπὰ τὰς φύσεις ἦν, ἀπαγριωθέντων, αὐτοὶ δὲ ἀσθενεῖς ἄνθρωποι καὶ ἀφύλακτοι γεγονότες διηρπάζοντο ὑπ᾽ (274c) αὐτῶν, καὶ ἔτ᾽ ἀμήχανοι καὶ ἄτεχνοι κατὰ τοὺς πρώτους ἦσαν χρόνους, ἅτε τῆς μὲν αὐτομάτης τροφῆς ἐπιλελοιπυίας, πορίζεσθαι δὲ οὐκ ἐπιστάμενοί πω διὰ τὸ μηδεμίαν αὐτοὺς χρείαν πρότερον ἀναγκάζειν.  ἐκ τούτων πάντων ἐν μεγάλαις ἀπορίαις ἦσαν. ὅθεν δὴ τὰ πάλαι λεχθέντα παρὰ θεῶν δῶρα ἡμῖν δεδώρηται μετ᾽ ἀναγκαίας διδαχῆς καὶ παιδεύσεως, πῦρ μὲν παρὰ Προμηθέως, τέχναι δὲ παρ᾽ Ἡφαίστου (274d) καὶ τῆς συντέχνου, σπέρματα δὲ αὖ καὶ φυτὰ παρ᾽ ἄλλων: καὶ πάνθ᾽ ὁπόσα τὸν ἀνθρώπινον βίον συγκατεσκεύακεν ἐκ τούτων γέγονεν, ἐπειδὴ τὸ μὲν ἐκ θεῶν, ὅπερ ἐρρήθη νυνδή, τῆς ἐπιμελείας ἐπέλιπεν ἀνθρώπους, δι᾽ ἑαυτῶν τε ἔδει τήν τε διαγωγὴν καὶ τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν αὐτοὺς αὑτῶν ἔχειν καθάπερ ὅλος ὁ κόσμος, ᾧ συμμιμούμενοι καὶ συνεπόμενοι τὸν ἀεὶ χρόνον νῦν μὲν οὕτως, τοτὲ δὲ ἐκείνως ζῶμέν (274e) τε καὶ φυόμεθα.  καὶ τὸ μὲν δὴ τοῦ μύθου τέλος ἐχέτω, χρήσιμον δὲ αὐτὸν ποιησόμεθα πρὸς τὸ κατιδεῖν ὅσον ἡμάρτομεν ἀποφηνάμενοι τὸν βασιλικόν τε καὶ πολιτικὸν ἐν τῷ πρόσθε λόγῳ. 
STRANGER:
Suppose that the nurslings of Cronos, having this boundless leisure, and the power of holding intercourse, not only with men, but with the brute creation, had used all these advantages with a view to philosophy, conversing with the brutes as well as with one another, and learning of every nature which was gifted with any special power, and was able to contribute some special experience to the store of wisdom, there would be no difficulty in deciding that they would be a thousand times happier than the men of our own day. Or, again, if they had merely eaten and drunk until they were full, and told stories to one another and to the animals--such stories as are now attributed to them--in this case also, as I should imagine, the answer would be easy. 
But until some satisfactory witness can be found of the love of that age for knowledge and discussion, we had better let the matter drop, and give the reason why we have unearthed this tale, and then we shall be able to get on.  In the fulness of time, when the change was to take place, and the earth-born race had all perished, and every soul had completed its proper cycle of births and been sown in the earth her appointed number of times, the pilot of the universe let the helm go, and retired to his place of view; and then Fate and innate desire reversed the motion of the world.  Then also all the inferior deities who share the rule of the supreme power, being informed of what was happening, let go the parts of the world which were under their control. And the world turning round with a sudden shock, being impelled in an opposite direction from beginning to end, was shaken by a mighty earthquake, which wrought a new destruction of all manner of animals.  Afterwards, when sufficient time had elapsed, the tumult and confusion and earthquake ceased, and the universal creature, once more at peace, attained to a calm, and settled down into his own orderly and accustomed course, having the charge and rule of himself and of all the creatures which are contained in him, and executing, as far as he remembered them, the instructions of his Father and Creator,  more precisely at first, but afterwords with less exactness. The reason of the falling off was the admixture of matter in him; this was inherent in the primal nature, which was full of disorder, until attaining to the present order.  From God, the constructor, the world received all that is good in him, but from a previous state came elements of evil and unrighteousness, which, thence derived, first of all passed into the world, and were then transmitted to the animals.  While the world was aided by the pilot in nurturing the animals, the evil was small, and great the good which he produced, but after the separation, when the world was let go, at first all proceeded well enough; but, as time went on, there was more and more forgetting, and the old discord again held sway and burst forth in full glory; and at last small was the good, and great was the admixture of evil, and there was a danger of universal ruin to the world, and to the things contained in him.  Wherefore God, the orderer of all, in his tender care, seeing that the world was in great straits, and fearing that all might be dissolved in the storm and disappear in infinite chaos, again seated himself at the helm; and bringing back the elements which had fallen into dissolution and disorder to the motion which had prevailed under his dispensation, he set them in order and restored them, and made the world imperishable and immortal.  And this is the whole tale, of which the first part will suffice to illustrate the nature of the king. For when the world turned towards the present cycle of generation, the age of man again stood still, and a change opposite to the previous one was the result.  The small creatures which had almost disappeared grew in and stature, and the newly-born children of the earth became grey and died and sank into the earth again.  All things changed, imitating and following the condition of the universe, and of necessity agreeing with that in their mode of conception and generation and nurture; for no animal was any longer allowed to come into being in the earth through the agency of other creative beings, but as the world was ordained to be the lord of his own progress, in like manner the parts were ordained to grow and generate and give nourishment, as far as they could, of themselves, impelled by a similar movement.  And so we have arrived at the real end of this discourse; for although there might be much to tell of the lower animals, and of the condition out of which they changed and of the causes of the change, about men there is not much, and that little is more to the purpose.  Deprived of the care of God, who had possessed and tended them, they were left helpless and defenceless, and were torn in pieces by the beasts, who were naturally fierce and had now grown wild. And in the first ages they were still without skill or resource; the food which once grew spontaneously had failed, and as yet they knew not how to procure it, because they had never felt the pressure of necessity.  For all these reasons they were in a great strait; wherefore also the gifts spoken of in the old tradition were imparted to man by the gods, together with so much teaching and education as was indispensable; fire was given to them by Prometheus, the arts by Hephaestus and his fellow-worker, Athene, seeds and plants by others. From these is derived all that has helped to frame human life; since the care of the Gods, as I was saying, had now failed men, and they had to order their course of life for themselves, and were their own masters, just like the universal creature whom they imitate and follow, ever changing, as he changes, and ever living and growing, at one time in one manner, and at another time in another.  Enough of the story, which may be of use in showing us how greatly we erred in the delineation of the king and the statesman in our previous discourse. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς οὖν καὶ πόσον ἁμάρτημα φῂς εἶναι γεγονὸς ἡμῖν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What was this great error of which you speak? 
Ξένος
τῇ μὲν βραχύτερον, τῇ δὲ μάλα γενναῖον καὶ πολλῷ μεῖζον καὶ πλέον ἢ τότε. 
STRANGER:
There were two; the first a lesser one, the other was an error on a much larger and grander scale. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
ὅτι μὲν ἐρωτώμενοι τὸν ἐκ τῆς νῦν περιφορᾶς καὶ γενέσεως βασιλέα καὶ πολιτικὸν τὸν ἐκ τῆς ἐναντίας περιόδου (275a) ποιμένα τῆς τότε ἀνθρωπίνης ἀγέλης εἴπομεν, καὶ ταῦτα θεὸν ἀντὶ θνητοῦ, ταύτῃ μὲν πάμπολυ παρηνέχθημεν: ὅτι δὲ συμπάσης τῆς πόλεως ἄρχοντα αὐτὸν ἀπεφήναμεν, ὅντινα δὲ τρόπον οὐ διείπομεν, ταύτῃ δὲ αὖ τὸ μὲν λεχθὲν ἀληθές, οὐ μὴν ὅλον γε οὐδὲ σαφὲς ἐρρήθη, διὸ καὶ βραχύτερον ἢ κατ᾽ ἐκεῖνο ἡμαρτήκαμεν. 
STRANGER:
I mean to say that when we were asked about a king and statesman of the present cycle and generation, we told of a shepherd of a human flock who belonged to the other cycle, and of one who was a god when he ought to have been a man; and this a great error. Again, we declared him to be the ruler of the entire State, without explaining how: this was not the whole truth, nor very intelligible; but still it was true, and therefore the second error was not so great as the first. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
δεῖ τοίνυν τὸν τρόπον, ὡς ἔοικε, διορίσαντας τῆς ἀρχῆς τῆς πόλεως οὕτω τελέως τὸν πολιτικὸν ἡμῖν εἰρῆσθαι προσδοκᾶν. 
STRANGER:
Before we can expect to have a perfect description of the statesman we must define the nature of his office. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς. (275b) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
διὰ ταῦτα μὴν καὶ τὸν μῦθον παρεθέμεθα, ἵνα ἐνδείξαιτο περὶ τῆς ἀγελαιοτροφίας μὴ μόνον ὡς πάντες αὐτῆς ἀμφισβητοῦσι τῷ ζητουμένῳ τὰ νῦν, ἀλλὰ κἀκεῖνον αὐτὸν ἐναργέστερον ἴδοιμεν, ὃν προσήκει μόνον κατὰ τὸ παράδειγμα ποιμένων τε καὶ βουκόλων τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχοντα τροφῆς τούτου μόνον ἀξιωθῆναι τοῦ προσρήματος. 
STRANGER:
And the myth was introduced in order to show, not only that all others are rivals of the true shepherd who is the object of our search, but in order that we might have a clearer view of him who is alone worthy to receive this appellation, because he alone of shepherds and herdsmen, according to the image which we have employed, has the care of human beings. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
οἶμαι δέ γ᾽, ὦ Σώκρατες, τοῦτο μὲν ἔτι μεῖζον ἢ (275c) κατὰ βασιλέα εἶναι τὸ σχῆμα τὸ τοῦ θείου νομέως, τοὺς δ᾽ ἐνθάδε νῦν ὄντας πολιτικοὺς τοῖς ἀρχομένοις ὁμοίους τε εἶναι μᾶλλον πολὺ τὰς φύσεις καὶ παραπλησιαίτερον παιδείας μετειληφέναι καὶ τροφῆς. 
STRANGER:
And I cannot help thinking, Socrates, that the form of the divine shepherd is even higher than that of a king; whereas the statesmen who are now on earth seem to be much more like their subjects in character, and much more nearly to partake of their breeding and education. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάντως που. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
ζητητέοι γε μὴν οὐδὲν ἂν εἴησαν οὔθ᾽ ἧττον οὔτε μᾶλλον, εἴθ᾽ οὕτως εἴτ᾽ ἐκείνως πεφύκασιν. 
STRANGER:
Still they must be investigated all the same, to see whether, like the divine shepherd, they are above their subjects or on a level with them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Of course. 
Ξένος
τῇδε δὴ πάλιν ἐπανέλθωμεν. ἣν γὰρ ἔφαμεν αὐτεπιτακτικὴν μὲν εἶναι τέχνην ἐπὶ ζῴοις, οὐ μὴν ἰδίᾳ γε ἀλλὰ (275d) κοινῇ τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχουσαν, καὶ προσείπομεν δὴ τότε εὐθὺς ἀγελαιοτροφικήν—μέμνησαι γάρ; 
STRANGER:
To resume:--Do you remember that we spoke of a command-for-self exercised over animals, not singly but collectively, which we called the art of rearing a herd? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, I remember. 
Ξένος
ταύτης τοίνυν πῃ διημαρτάνομεν. τὸν γὰρ πολιτικὸν οὐδαμοῦ συνελάβομεν οὐδ᾽ ὠνομάσαμεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἔλαθεν κατὰ τὴν ὀνομασίαν ἐκφυγών. 
STRANGER:
There, somewhere, lay our error; for we never included or mentioned the Statesman; and we did not observe that he had no place in our nomenclature. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How was that? 
Ξένος
τοῦ τὰς ἀγέλας ἑκάστας τρέφειν τοῖς μὲν ἄλλοις που πᾶσι μέτεστι νομεῦσι, τῷ πολιτικῷ δὲ οὐ μετὸν ἐπηνέγκαμεν (275e) τοὔνομα, δέον τῶν κοινῶν ἐπενεγκεῖν τι σύμπασιν. 
STRANGER:
All other herdsmen 'rear' their herds, but this is not a suitable term to apply to the Statesman; we should use a name which is common to them all. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ λέγεις, εἴπερ ἐτύγχανέ γε ὄν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True, if there be such a name. 
Ξένος
πῶς δ᾽ οὐκ ἦν τό γε θεραπεύειν που πᾶσι κοινόν, μηδὲν διορισθείσης τροφῆς μηδέ τινος ἄλλης πραγματείας; ἀλλ᾽ ἤ τινα ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ἢ θεραπευτικὴν ἢ καί τινα ἐπιμελητικὴν αὐτὴν ὀνομάσασιν ὡς κατὰ πάντων ἐξῆν περικαλύπτειν καὶ τὸν πολιτικὸν ἅμα τοῖς ἄλλοις, ἐπειδὴ δεῖν τοῦτ᾽ ἐσήμαινεν ὁ λόγος. 
STRANGER:
Why, is not 'care' of herds applicable to all? For this implies no feeding, or any special duty; if we say either 'tending' the herds, or 'managing' the herds, or 'having the care' of them, the same word will include all, and then we may wrap up the Statesman with the rest, as the argument seems to require. 
(276a) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. ἀλλ᾽ ἡ μετὰ τοῦτο διαίρεσις αὖ τίνα τρόπον ἐγίγνετ᾽ ἄν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite right; but how shall we take the next step in the division? 
Ξένος
κατὰ ταὐτὰ καθ᾽ ἅπερ ἔμπροσθεν διῃρούμεθα τὴν ἀγελαιοτροφικὴν πεζοῖς τε καὶ ἀπτῆσι, καὶ ἀμείκτοις τε καὶ ἀκεράτοις, τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἄν που τούτοις διαιρούμενοι καὶ τὴν ἀγελαιοκομικὴν τήν τε νῦν καὶ τὴν ἐπὶ Κρόνου βασιλείαν περιειληφότες ἂν ἦμεν ὁμοίως ἐν τῷ λόγῳ. 
STRANGER:
As before we divided the art of 'rearing' herds accordingly as they were land or water herds, winged and wingless, mixing or not mixing the breed, horned and hornless, so we may divide by these same differences the 'tending' of herds, comprehending in our definition the kingship of to-day and the rule of Cronos. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται: ζητῶ δὲ αὖ τί τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is clear; but I still ask, what is to follow. 
Ξένος
δῆλον ὅτι λεχθέντος οὕτω τοῦ τῆς ἀγελαιοκομικῆς (276b) ὀνόματος οὐκ ἄν ποτε ἐγένεθ᾽ ἡμῖν τό τινας ἀμφισβητεῖν ὡς οὐδ᾽ ἐπιμέλεια τὸ παράπαν ἐστίν, ὥσπερ τότε δικαίως ἠμφεσβητήθη μηδεμίαν εἶναι τέχνην ἐν ἡμῖν ἀξίαν τούτου τοῦ θρεπτικοῦ προσρήματος, εἰ δ᾽ οὖν τις εἴη, πολλοῖς πρότερον αὐτῆς καὶ μᾶλλον προσήκειν ἤ τινι τῶν βασιλέων. 
STRANGER:
If the word had been 'managing' herds, instead of feeding or rearing them, no one would have argued that there was no care of men in the case of the politician, although it was justly contended, that there was no human art of feeding them which was worthy of the name, or at least, if there were, many a man had a prior and greater right to share in such an art than any king. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
ἐπιμέλεια δέ γε ἀνθρωπίνης συμπάσης κοινωνίας οὐδεμία ἂν ἐθελήσειεν ἑτέρα μᾶλλον καὶ προτέρα τῆς βασιλικῆς (276c) φάναι καὶ κατὰ πάντων ἀνθρώπων ἀρχῆς εἶναι τέχνη. 
STRANGER:
But no other art or science will have a prior or better right than the royal science to care for human society and to rule over men in general. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγεις ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
μετὰ ταῦτα δέ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἆρ᾽ ἐννοοῦμεν ὅτι πρὸς αὐτῷ δὴ τῷ τέλει συχνὸν αὖ διημαρτάνετο; 
STRANGER:
In the next place, Socrates, we must surely notice that a great error was committed at the end of our analysis. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What was it? 
Ξένος
τόδε, ὡς ἄρ᾽ εἰ καὶ διενοήθημεν ὅτι μάλιστα τῆς δίποδος ἀγέλης εἶναί τινα θρεπτικὴν τέχνην, οὐδέν τι μᾶλλον ἡμᾶς ἔδει βασιλικὴν αὐτὴν εὐθὺς καὶ πολιτικὴν ὡς ἀποτετελεσμένην προσαγορεύειν. 
STRANGER:
Why, supposing we were ever so sure that there is such an art as the art of rearing or feeding bipeds, there was no reason why we should call this the royal or political art, as though there were no more to be said. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
πρῶτον μέν, ὃ λέγομεν, τοὔνομα μετασκευωρήσασθαι, (276d) πρὸς τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν μᾶλλον προσαγαγόντας ἢ τὴν τροφήν, ἔπειτα ταύτην τέμνειν: οὐ γὰρ σμικρὰς ἂν ἔχοι τμήσεις ἔτι. 
STRANGER:
Our first duty, as we were saying, was to remodel the name, so as to have the notion of care rather than of feeding, and then to divide, for there may be still considerable divisions. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποίας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How can they be made? 
Ξένος
ἧι τε τὸν θεῖον ἄν που διειλόμεθα νομέα χωρὶς καὶ τὸν ἀνθρώπινον ἐπιμελητήν. 
STRANGER:
First, by separating the divine shepherd from the human guardian or manager. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
αὖθις δέ γε τὴν ἀπονεμηθεῖσαν ἐπιμελητικὴν δίχα τέμνειν ἀναγκαῖον ἦν. 
STRANGER:
And the art of management which is assigned to man would again have to be subdivided. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνι; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
On what principle? 
Ξένος
τῷ βιαίῳ τε καὶ ἑκουσίῳ. 
STRANGER:
On the principle of voluntary and compulsory. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δή; (276e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why? 
Ξένος
καὶ ταύτῃ που τὸ πρότερον ἁμαρτάνοντες εὐηθέστερα τοῦ δέοντος εἰς ταὐτὸν βασιλέα καὶ τύραννον συνέθεμεν, ἀνομοιοτάτους ὄντας αὐτούς τε καὶ τὸν τῆς ἀρχῆς ἑκατέρου τρόπον. 
STRANGER:
Because, if I am not mistaken, there has been an error here; for our simplicity led us to rank king and tyrant together, whereas they are utterly distinct, like their modes of government. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
νῦν δέ γε πάλιν ἐπανορθούμενοι, καθάπερ εἶπον, τὴν ἀνθρωπίνην ἐπιμελητικὴν δίχα διαιρώμεθα, τῷ βιαίῳ τε καὶ ἑκουσίῳ; 
STRANGER:
Then, now, as I said, let us make the correction and divide human care into two parts, on the principle of voluntary and compulsory. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
καὶ τὴν μέν γέ που τῶν βιαίων τυραννικήν, τὴν δὲ ἑκούσιον καὶ ἑκουσίων διπόδων ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ζῴων προσειπόντες πολιτικήν, τὸν ἔχοντα αὖ τέχνην ταύτην καὶ ἐπιμέλειαν ὄντως ὄντα βασιλέα καὶ πολιτικὸν ἀποφαινώμεθα; 
STRANGER:
And if we call the management of violent rulers tyranny, and the voluntary management of herds of voluntary bipeds politics, may we not further assert that he who has this latter art of management is the true king and statesman? 
(277a) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ κινδυνεύει γε, ὦ ξένε, τελέως ἂν ἡμῖν οὕτως ἔχειν ἡ περὶ τὸν πολιτικὸν ἀπόδειξις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I think, Stranger, that we have now completed the account of the Statesman. 
Ξένος
καλῶς ἄν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡμῖν ἔχοι. δεῖ δὲ μὴ σοὶ μόνῳ ταῦτα, ἀλλὰ κἀμοὶ μετὰ σοῦ κοινῇ συνδοκεῖν. νῦν δὲ κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν οὔπω φαίνεται τέλεον ὁ βασιλεὺς ἡμῖν σχῆμα ἔχειν, ἀλλὰ καθάπερ ἀνδριαντοποιοὶ παρὰ καιρὸν ἐνίοτε σπεύδοντες πλείω καὶ μείζω τοῦ δέοντος ἕκαστα τῶν (277b) ἔργων ἐπεμβαλλόμενοι βραδύνουσι, καὶ νῦν ἡμεῖς, ἵνα δὴ πρὸς τῷ ταχὺ καὶ μεγαλοπρεπῶς δηλώσαιμεν τὸ τῆς ἔμπροσθεν ἁμάρτημα διεξόδου, τῷ βασιλεῖ νομίσαντες πρέπειν μεγάλα παραδείγματα ποιεῖσθαι, θαυμαστὸν ὄγκον ἀράμενοι τοῦ μύθου, μείζονι τοῦ δέοντος ἠναγκάσθημεν αὐτοῦ μέρει προσχρήσασθαι: 
διὸ μακροτέραν τὴν ἀπόδειξιν πεποιήκαμεν καὶ πάντως τῷ μύθῳ τέλος οὐκ ἐπέθεμεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἀτεχνῶς ὁ (277c) λόγος ἡμῖν ὥσπερ ζῷον τὴν ἔξωθεν μὲν περιγραφὴν ἔοικεν ἱκανῶς ἔχειν, τὴν δὲ οἷον τοῖς φαρμάκοις καὶ τῇ συγκράσει τῶν χρωμάτων ἐνάργειαν οὐκ ἀπειληφέναι πω.  γραφῆς δὲ καὶ συμπάσης χειρουργίας λέξει καὶ λόγῳ δηλοῦν πᾶν ζῷον μᾶλλον πρέπει τοῖς δυναμένοις ἕπεσθαι: τοῖς δ᾽ ἄλλοις διὰ χειρουργιῶν. 
STRANGER:
Would that we had, Socrates, but I have to satisfy myself as well as you; and in my judgment the figure of the king is not yet perfected; like statuaries who, in their too great haste, having overdone the several parts of their work, lose time in cutting them down, so too we, partly out of haste, partly out of a magnanimous desire to expose our former error, and also because we imagined that a king required grand illustrations, have taken up a marvellous lump of fable, and have been obliged to use more than was necessary. 
This made us discourse at large, and, nevertheless, the story never came to an end. And our discussion might be compared to a picture of some living being which had been fairly drawn in outline, but had not yet attained the life and clearness which is given by the blending of colours.  Now to intelligent persons a living being had better be delineated by language and discourse than by any painting or work of art: to the duller sort by works of art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθῶς: ὅπῃ δὲ ἡμῖν οὔπω φῂς ἱκανῶς εἰρῆσθαι δήλωσον. (277d) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true; but what is the imperfection which still remains? I wish that you would tell me. 
Ξένος
χαλεπόν, ὦ δαιμόνιε, μὴ παραδείγμασι χρώμενον ἱκανῶς ἐνδείκνυσθαί τι τῶν μειζόνων. κινδυνεύει γὰρ ἡμῶν ἕκαστος οἷον ὄναρ εἰδὼς ἅπαντα πάντ᾽ αὖ πάλιν ὥσπερ ὕπαρ ἀγνοεῖν. 
STRANGER:
The higher ideas, my dear friend, can hardly be set forth except through the medium of examples; every man seems to know all things in a dreamy sort of way, and then again to wake up and to know nothing. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς τοῦτ᾽ εἶπες; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
καὶ μάλ᾽ ἀτόπως ἔοικά γε ἐν τῷ παρόντι κινήσας τὸ περὶ τῆς ἐπιστήμης πάθος ἐν ἡμῖν. 
STRANGER:
I fear that I have been unfortunate in raising a question about our experience of knowledge. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why so? 
Ξένος
παραδείγματος, ὦ μακάριε, αὖ μοι καὶ τὸ παράδειγμα αὐτὸ δεδέηκεν. (277e) 
STRANGER:
Why, because my 'example' requires the assistance of another example. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί οὖν; λέγε μηδὲν ἐμοῦ γε ἕνεκα ἀποκνῶν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Proceed; you need not fear that I shall tire. 
Ξένος
λεκτέον ἐπειδὴ καὶ σύ γε ἕτοιμος ἀκολουθεῖν. τοὺς γάρ που παῖδας ἴσμεν, ὅταν ἄρτι γραμμάτων ἔμπειροι γίγνωνται— 
STRANGER:
I will proceed, finding, as I do, such a ready listener in you: when children are beginning to know their letters-- 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What are you going to say? 
Ξένος
ὅτι τῶν στοιχείων ἕκαστον ἐν ταῖς βραχυτάταις καὶ ῥᾴσταις τῶν συλλαβῶν ἱκανῶς διαισθάνονται, καὶ τἀληθῆ φράζειν περὶ ἐκεῖνα δυνατοὶ γίγνονται. 
STRANGER:
That they distinguish the several letters well enough in very short and easy syllables, and are able to tell them correctly. 
(278a) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
ταὐτὰ δέ γε ταῦτα ἐν ἄλλαις ἀμφιγνοοῦντες πάλιν δόξῃ τε ψεύδονται καὶ λόγῳ. 
STRANGER:
Whereas in other syllables they do not recognize them, and think and speak falsely of them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν οὐχ ὧδε ῥᾷστον καὶ κάλλιστον ἐπάγειν αὐτοὺς ἐπὶ τὰ μήπω γιγνωσκόμενα; 
STRANGER:
Will not the best and easiest way of bringing them to a knowledge of what they do not as yet know be-- 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Be what? 
Ξένος
ἀνάγειν πρῶτον ἐπ᾽ ἐκεῖνα ἐν οἷς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα ὀρθῶς ἐδόξαζον, ἀναγαγόντας δὲ τιθέναι παρὰ τὰ μήπω (278b) γιγνωσκόμενα, καὶ παραβάλλοντας ἐνδεικνύναι τὴν αὐτὴν ὁμοιότητα καὶ φύσιν ἐν ἀμφοτέραις οὖσαν ταῖς συμπλοκαῖς, μέχριπερ ἂν πᾶσι τοῖς ἀγνοουμένοις τὰ δοξαζόμενα ἀληθῶς παρατιθέμενα δειχθῇ, δειχθέντα δέ, παραδείγματα οὕτω γιγνόμενα, ποιήσῃ τῶν στοιχείων ἕκαστον πάντων ἐν πάσαις ταῖς συλλαβαῖς τὸ μὲν ἕτερον ὡς τῶν ἄλλων ἕτερον ὄν, τὸ (278c) δὲ ταὐτὸν ὡς ταὐτὸν ἀεὶ κατὰ ταὐτὰ ἑαυτῷ προσαγορεύεσθαι. 
STRANGER:
To refer them first of all to cases in which they judge correctly about the letters in question, and then to compare these with the cases in which they do not as yet know, and to show them that the letters are the same, and have the same character in both combinations, until all cases in which they are right have been placed side by side with all cases in which they are wrong. In this way they have examples, and are made to learn that each letter in every combination is always the same and not another, and is always called by the same name. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν τοῦτο μὲν ἱκανῶς συνειλήφαμεν, ὅτι παραδείγματός γ᾽ ἐστὶ τότε γένεσις, ὁπόταν ὂν ταὐτὸν ἐν ἑτέρῳ διεσπασμένῳ δοξαζόμενον ὀρθῶς καὶ συναχθὲν περὶ ἑκάτερον ὡς συνάμφω μίαν ἀληθῆ δόξαν ἀποτελῇ; 
STRANGER:
Are not examples formed in this manner? We take a thing and compare it with another distinct instance of the same thing, of which we have a right conception, and out of the comparison there arises one true notion, which includes both of them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Exactly. 
Ξένος
θαυμάζοιμεν ἂν οὖν εἰ ταὐτὸν τοῦτο ἡμῶν ἡ ψυχὴ (278d) φύσει περὶ τὰ τῶν πάντων στοιχεῖα πεπονθυῖα τοτὲ μὲν ὑπ᾽ ἀληθείας περὶ ἓν ἕκαστον ἔν τισι συνίσταται, τοτὲ δὲ περὶ ἅπαντα ἐν ἑτέροις αὖ φέρεται, καὶ τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν ἁμῇ γέ πῃ τῶν συγκράσεων ὀρθῶς δοξάζει, μετατιθέμενα δ᾽ εἰς τὰς τῶν πραγμάτων μακρὰς καὶ μὴ ῥᾳδίους συλλαβὰς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα πάλιν ἀγνοεῖ; 
STRANGER:
Can we wonder, then, that the soul has the same uncertainty about the alphabet of things, and sometimes and in some cases is firmly fixed by the truth in each particular, and then, again, in other cases is altogether at sea; having somehow or other a correct notion of combinations; but when the elements are transferred into the long and difficult language (syllables) of facts, is again ignorant of them? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ θαυμαστόν γε οὐδέν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
There is nothing wonderful in that. 
Ξένος
πῶς γάρ, ὦ φίλε, δύναιτο ἄν τις ἀρχόμενος ἀπὸ (278e) δόξης ψευδοῦς ἐπί τι τῆς ἀληθείας καὶ μικρὸν μέρος ἀφικόμενος κτήσασθαι φρόνησιν; 
STRANGER:
Could any one, my friend, who began with false opinion ever expect to arrive even at a small portion of truth and to attain wisdom? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
σχεδὸν οὐδαμῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Hardly. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ταῦτα εἰ ταύτῃ πέφυκεν, οὐδὲν δὴ πλημμελοῖμεν ἂν ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ πρῶτον μὲν ἐπιχειρήσαντες ὅλου παραδείγματος ἰδεῖν τὴν φύσιν ἐν σμικρῷ κατὰ μέρος ἄλλῳ παραδείγματι, μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα μέλλοντες, ἐπὶ τὸ τοῦ βασιλέως μέγιστον ὂν ταὐτὸν εἶδος ἀπ᾽ ἐλαττόνων φέροντές ποθεν, διὰ παραδείγματος ἐπιχειρεῖν αὖ τὴν τῶν κατὰ πόλιν θεραπείαν τέχνῃ γνωρίζειν, ἵνα ὕπαρ ἀντ᾽ ὀνείρατος ἡμῖν γίγνηται; 
STRANGER:
Then you and I will not be far wrong in trying to see the nature of example in general in a small and particular instance; afterwards from lesser things we intend to pass to the royal class, which is the highest form of the same nature, and endeavour to discover by rules of art what the management of cities is; and then the dream will become a reality to us. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
(279a) Ξένος
πάλιν δὴ τὸν ἔμπροσθε λόγον ἀναληπτέον, ὡς ἐπειδὴ τῷ βασιλικῷ γένει τῆς περὶ τὰς πόλεις ἐπιμελείας ἀμφισβητοῦσι μυρίοι, δεῖ δὴ πάντας ἀποχωρίζειν τούτους καὶ μόνον ἐκεῖνον λείπειν καὶ πρὸς τοῦτο δὴ παραδείγματος ἔφαμεν δεῖν τινος ἡμῖν. 
STRANGER:
Then, once more, let us resume the previous argument, and as there were innumerable rivals of the royal race who claim to have the care of states, let us part them all off, and leave him alone; and, as I was saying, a model or example of this process has first to be framed. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ μάλα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Exactly. 
Ξένος
τί δῆτα παράδειγμά τις ἄν, ἔχον τὴν αὐτὴν πολιτικῇ πραγματείαν, σμικρότατον παραθέμενος ἱκανῶς ἂν εὕροι τὸ (279b) ζητούμενον; βούλει πρὸς Διός, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰ μή τι πρόχειρον ἕτερον ἔχομεν, ἀλλ᾽ οὖν τήν γε ὑφαντικὴν προελώμεθα; καὶ ταύτην, εἰ δοκεῖ, μὴ πᾶσαν; ἀποχρήσει γὰρ ἴσως ἡ περὶ τὰ ἐκ τῶν ἐρίων ὑφάσματα: τάχα γὰρ ἂν ἡμῖν καὶ τοῦτο τὸ μέρος αὐτῆς μαρτυρήσειε προαιρεθὲν ὃ βουλόμεθα. 
STRANGER:
What model is there which is small, and yet has any analogy with the political occupation? Suppose, Socrates, that if we have no other example at hand, we choose weaving, or, more precisely, weaving of wool--this will be quite enough, without taking the whole of weaving, to illustrate our meaning? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τί δῆτα οὐ, καθάπερ ἐν τοῖς ἔμπροσθε τέμνοντες μέρη μερῶν ἕκαστον διῃρούμεθα, καὶ νῦν περὶ ὑφαντικὴν (279c) ταὐτὸν τοῦτ᾽ ἐδράσαμεν, καὶ κατὰ δύναμιν ὅτι μάλιστα διὰ βραχέων ταχὺ πάντ᾽ ἐπελθόντες πάλιν ἤλθομεν ἐπὶ τὸ νῦν χρήσιμον; 
STRANGER:
Why should we not apply to weaving the same processes of division and subdivision which we have already applied to other classes; going once more as rapidly as we can through all the steps until we come to that which is needed for our purpose? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How do you mean? 
Ξένος
αὐτὴν τὴν διέξοδον ἀπόκρισίν σοι ποιήσομαι. 
STRANGER:
I shall reply by actually performing the process. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κάλλιστ᾽ εἶπες. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
ἔστι τοίνυν πάντα ἡμῖν ὁπόσα δημιουργοῦμεν καὶ κτώμεθα, τὰ μὲν ἕνεκα τοῦ ποιεῖν τι, τὰ δὲ τοῦ μὴ πάσχειν ἀμυντήρια: καὶ τῶν ἀμυντηρίων τὰ μὲν ἀλεξιφάρμακα καὶ (279d) θεῖα καὶ ἀνθρώπινα, τὰ δὲ προβλήματα: τῶν δὲ προβλημάτων τὰ μὲν πρὸς τὸν πόλεμον ὁπλίσματα, τὰ δὲ φράγματα: καὶ τῶν φραγμάτων τὰ μὲν παραπετάσματα, τὰ δὲ πρὸς χειμῶνας καὶ καύματα ἀλεξητήρια: τῶν δὲ ἀλεξητηρίων τὰ μὲν στεγάσματα, τὰ δὲ σκεπάσματα: καὶ τῶν σκεπασμάτων ὑποπετάσματα μὲν ἄλλα, περικαλύμματα δὲ ἕτερα: περικαλυμμάτων δὲ τὰ μὲν ὁλόσχιστα, σύνθετα δὲ ἕτερα: τῶν δὲ συνθέτων (279e) τὰ μὲν τρητά, τὰ δὲ ἄνευ τρήσεως συνδετά: καὶ τῶν ἀτρήτων τὰ μὲν νεύρινα φυτῶν ἐκ γῆς, τὰ δὲ τρίχινα: τῶν δὲ τριχίνων τὰ μὲν ὕδασι καὶ γῇ κολλητά, τὰ δὲ αὐτὰ αὑτοῖς συνδετά. 
τούτοισι δὴ τοῖς ἐκ τῶν ἑαυτοῖς συνδουμένων ἐργασθεῖσιν ἀμυντηρίοις καὶ σκεπάσμασι τὸ μὲν ὄνομα ἱμάτια ἐκαλέσαμεν: τὴν δὲ τῶν ἱματίων μάλιστα ἐπιμελουμένην (280a) τέχνην, ὥσπερ τότε τὴν τῆς πόλεως πολιτικὴν εἴπομεν, οὕτω καὶ νῦν ταύτην προσείπωμεν ἀπ᾽ αὐτοῦ τοῦ πράγματος ἱματιουργικήν; φῶμεν δὲ καὶ ὑφαντικήν, ὅσον ἐπὶ τῇ τῶν ἱματίων ἐργασίᾳ μέγιστον ἦν μόριον, μηδὲν διαφέρειν πλὴν ὀνόματι ταύτης τῆς ἱματιουργικῆς, καθάπερ κἀκεῖ τότε τὴν βασιλικὴν τῆς πολιτικῆς; 
STRANGER:
All things which we make or acquire are either creative or preventive; of the preventive class are antidotes, divine and human, and also defences; and defences are either military weapons or protections; and protections are veils, and also shields against heat and cold, and shields against heat and cold are shelters and coverings; and coverings are blankets and garments; and garments are some of them in one piece, and others of them are made in several parts; and of these latter some are stitched, others are fastened and not stitched; and of the not stitched, some are made of the sinews of plants, and some of hair; and of these, again, some are cemented with water and earth, and others are fastened together by themselves. 
And these last defences and coverings which are fastened together by themselves are called clothes, and the art which superintends them we may call, from the nature of the operation, the art of clothing, just as before the art of the Statesman was derived from the State; and may we not say that the art of weaving, at least that largest portion of it which was concerned with the making of clothes, differs only in name from this art of clothing, in the same way that, in the previous case, the royal science differed from the political? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατά γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Most true. 
Ξένος
τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο δὴ συλλογισώμεθα ὅτι τὴν ἱματίων (280b) ὑφαντικὴν οὕτω ῥηθεῖσάν τις τάχ᾽ ἂν ἱκανῶς εἰρῆσθαι δόξειεν, μὴ δυνάμενος συννοεῖν ὅτι τῶν μὲν ἐγγὺς συνεργῶν οὔπω διώρισται, πολλῶν δὲ ἑτέρων συγγενῶν ἀπεμερίσθη. 
STRANGER:
In the next place, let us make the reflection, that the art of weaving clothes, which an incompetent person might fancy to have been sufficiently described, has been separated off from several others which are of the same family, but not from the co-operative arts. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποίων, εἰπέ, συγγενῶν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
And which are the kindred arts? 
Ξένος
οὐχ ἕσπου τοῖς λεχθεῖσιν, ὡς φαίνῃ: πάλιν οὖν ἔοικεν ἐπανιτέον ἀρχόμενον ἀπὸ τελευτῆς. 
εἰ γὰρ συννοεῖς τὴν οἰκειότητα, τὴν μὲν διετέμομεν ἀπ᾽ αὐτῆς νυνδή, τὴν τῶν στρωμάτων σύνθεσιν περιβολῇ χωρίζοντες καὶ ὑποβολῇ. 
STRANGER:
I see that I have not taken you with me. So I think that we had better go backwards, starting from the end. 
We just now parted off from the weaving of clothes, the making of blankets, which differ from each other in that one is put under and the other is put around: and these are what I termed kindred arts. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
μανθάνω. (280c) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I understand. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν τὴν ἐκ τῶν λίνων καὶ σπάρτων καὶ πάντων ὁπόσα φυτῶν ἄρτι νεῦρα κατὰ λόγον εἴπομεν, δημιουργίαν πᾶσαν ἀφείλομεν: τήν τε αὖ πιλητικὴν ἀφωρισάμεθα καὶ τὴν τρήσει καὶ ῥαφῇ χρωμένην σύνθεσιν, ἧς ἡ πλείστη σκυτοτομική. 
STRANGER:
And we have subtracted the manufacture of all articles made of flax and cords, and all that we just now metaphorically termed the sinews of plants, and we have also separated off the process of felting and the putting together of materials by stitching and sewing, of which the most important part is the cobbler's art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Precisely. 
Ξένος
καὶ τοίνυν τὴν τῶν ὁλοσχίστων σκεπασμάτων θεραπείαν δερματουργικὴν καὶ τὰς τῶν στεγασμάτων, ὅσαι τε ἐν οἰκοδομικῇ καὶ ὅλῃ τεκτονικῇ καὶ ἐν ἄλλαις τέχναις ῥευμάτων (280d) στεκτικαὶ γίγνονται, συμπάσας ἀφείλομεν, ὅσαι τε περὶ τὰς κλοπὰς καὶ τὰς βίᾳ πράξεις διακωλυτικὰ ἔργα παρέχονται τέχναι φραγμάτων, περί τε γένεσιν ἐπιθηματουργίας οὖσαι καὶ τὰς τῶν θυρωμάτων πήξεις, γομφωτικῆς ἀπονεμηθεῖσαι μόρια τέχνης: 
τήν τε ὁπλοποιικὴν ἀπετεμόμεθα, μεγάλης καὶ παντοίας τῆς προβληματουργικῆς τμῆμα οὖσαν δυνάμεως: (280e) καὶ δὴ καὶ τὴν μαγευτικὴν τὴν περὶ τὰ ἀλεξιφάρμακα κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς εὐθὺς διωρισάμεθα σύμπασαν, καὶ λελοίπαμεν, ὡς δόξαιμεν ἄν, αὐτὴν τὴν ζητηθεῖσαν ἀμυντικὴν χειμώνων, ἐρεοῦ προβλήματος ἐργαστικήν, ὄνομα δὲ ὑφαντικὴν λεχθεῖσαν. 
STRANGER:
Then we separated off the currier's art, which prepared coverings in entire pieces, and the art of sheltering, and subtracted the various arts of making water-tight which are employed in building, and in general in carpentering, and in other crafts, and all such arts as furnish impediments to thieving and acts of violence, and are concerned with making the lids of boxes and the fixing of doors, being divisions of the art of joining; 
and we also cut off the manufacture of arms, which is a section of the great and manifold art of making defences; and we originally began by parting off the whole of the magic art which is concerned with antidotes, and have left, as would appear, the very art of which we were in search, the art of protection against winter cold, which fabricates woollen defences, and has the name of weaving. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικε γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἔστι πω τέλεον, ὦ παῖ, τοῦτο λελεγμένον. ὁ γὰρ ἐν ἀρχῇ τῆς τῶν ἱματίων ἐργασίας ἁπτόμενος τοὐναντίον (281a) ὑφῇ δρᾶν φαίνεται. 
STRANGER:
Yes, my boy, but that is not all; for the first process to which the material is subjected is the opposite of weaving. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How so? 
Ξένος
τὸ μὲν τῆς ὑφῆς συμπλοκή τίς ἐστί που. 
STRANGER:
Weaving is a sort of uniting? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τὸ δέ γε τῶν συνεστώτων καὶ συμπεπιλημένων διαλυτική. 
STRANGER:
But the first process is a separation of the clotted and matted fibres? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
τὸ τῆς τοῦ ξαίνοντος τέχνης ἔργον. ἢ τὴν ξαντικὴν τολμήσομεν ὑφαντικὴν καὶ τὸν ξάντην ὡς ὄντα ὑφάντην καλεῖν; 
STRANGER:
I mean the work of the carder's art; for we cannot say that carding is weaving, or that the carder is a weaver. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν τήν γε αὖ στήμονος ἐργαστικὴν καὶ κρόκης εἴ τις ὑφαντικὴν προσαγορεύει, παράδοξόν τε καὶ ψεῦδος (281b) ὄνομα λέγει. 
STRANGER:
Again, if a person were to say that the art of making the warp and the woof was the art of weaving, he would say what was paradoxical and false. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To be sure. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; κναφευτικὴν σύμπασαν καὶ τὴν ἀκεστικὴν πότερα μηδεμίαν ἐπιμέλειαν μηδέ τινα θεραπείαν ἐσθῆτος θῶμεν, ἢ καὶ ταύτας πάσας ὡς ὑφαντικὰς λέξομεν; 
STRANGER:
Shall we say that the whole art of the fuller or of the mender has nothing to do with the care and treatment of clothes, or are we to regard all these as arts of weaving? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
ἀλλὰ μὴν τῆς γε θεραπείας ἀμφισβητήσουσιν αὗται σύμπασαι καὶ τῆς γενέσεως τῆς τῶν ἱματίων τῇ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς δυνάμει, μέγιστον μὲν μέρος ἐκείνῃ διδοῦσαι, μεγάλα δὲ καὶ σφίσιν αὐταῖς ἀπονέμουσαι. (281c) 
STRANGER:
And yet surely all these arts will maintain that they are concerned with the treatment and production of clothes; they will dispute the exclusive prerogative of weaving, and though assigning a larger sphere to that, will still reserve a considerable field for themselves. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
πρὸς τοίνυν ταύταις ἔτι τὰς τῶν ἐργαλείων δημιουργοὺς τέχνας, δι᾽ ὧν ἀποτελεῖται τὰ τῆς ὑφῆς ἔργα, δοκεῖν χρὴ τό γε συναιτίας εἶναι προσποιήσασθαι παντὸς ὑφάσματος. 
STRANGER:
Besides these, there are the arts which make tools and instruments of weaving, and which will claim at least to be co-operative causes in every work of the weaver. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Most true. 
Ξένος
πότερον οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ περὶ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς λόγος, οὗ προειλόμεθα μέρους, ἱκανῶς ἔσται διωρισμένος, ἐὰν ἄρ᾽ αὐτὴν τῶν ἐπιμελειῶν ὁπόσαι περὶ τὴν ἐρεᾶν ἐσθῆτα, εἰς τὴν (281d) καλλίστην καὶ μεγίστην πασῶν τιθῶμεν: ἢ λέγοιμεν μὲν ἄν τι ἀληθές, οὐ μὴν σαφές γε οὐδὲ τέλεον, πρὶν ἂν καὶ ταύτας αὐτῆς πάσας περιέλωμεν; 
STRANGER:
Well, then, suppose that we define weaving, or rather that part of it which has been selected by us, to be the greatest and noblest of arts which are concerned with woollen garments--shall we be right? Is not the definition, although true, wanting in clearness and completeness; for do not all those other arts require to be first cleared away? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν μετὰ ταῦτα ποιητέον ὃ λέγομεν, ἵν᾽ ἐφεξῆς ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ἴῃ; 
STRANGER:
Then the next thing will be to separate them, in order that the argument may proceed in a regular manner? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
πρῶτον μὲν τοίνυν δύο τέχνας οὔσας περὶ πάντα τὰ δρώμενα θεασώμεθα. 
STRANGER:
Let us consider, in the first place, that there are two kinds of arts entering into everything which we do. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What are they? 
Ξένος
τὴν μὲν γενέσεως οὖσαν συναίτιον, τὴν δ᾽ αὐτὴν αἰτίαν. 
STRANGER:
The one kind is the conditional or co-operative, the other the principal cause. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; (281e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
ὅσαι μὲν τὸ πρᾶγμα αὐτὸ μὴ δημιουργοῦσι, ταῖς δὲ δημιουργούσαις ὄργανα παρασκευάζουσιν, ὧν μὴ παραγενομένων οὐκ ἄν ποτε ἐργασθείη τὸ προστεταγμένον ἑκάστῃ τῶν τεχνῶν, ταύτας μὲν συναιτίους, τὰς δὲ αὐτὸ τὸ πρᾶγμα ἀπεργαζομένας αἰτίας. 
STRANGER:
The arts which do not manufacture the actual thing, but which furnish the necessary tools for the manufacture, without which the several arts could not fulfil their appointed work, are co-operative; but those which make the things themselves are causal. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔχει γοῦν λόγον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
A very reasonable distinction. 
Ξένος
μετὰ τοῦτο δὴ τὰς μὲν περί τε ἀτράκτους καὶ κερκίδας καὶ ὁπόσα ἄλλα ὄργανα τῆς περὶ τὰ ἀμφιέσματα γενέσεως κοινωνεῖ, πάσας συναιτίους εἴπωμεν, τὰς δὲ αὐτὰ θεραπευούσας καὶ δημιουργούσας αἰτίας; 
STRANGER:
Thus the arts which make spindles, combs, and other instruments of the production of clothes, may be called co-operative, and those which treat and fabricate the things themselves, causal. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
(282a) Ξένος
τῶν αἰτιῶν δὴ πλυντικὴν μὲν καὶ ἀκεστικὴν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν περὶ ταῦτα θεραπευτικήν, πολλῆς οὔσης τῆς κοσμητικῆς, τοὐνταῦθα αὐτῆς μόριον εἰκὸς μάλιστα περιλαμβάνειν ὀνομάζοντας πᾶν τῇ τέχνῃ τῇ κναφευτικῇ. 
STRANGER:
The arts of washing and mending, and the other preparatory arts which belong to the causal class, and form a division of the great art of adornment, may be all comprehended under what we call the fuller's art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ξαντική γε καὶ νηστικὴ καὶ πάντα αὖ τὰ περὶ τὴν ποίησιν αὐτὴν τῆς ἐσθῆτος ἧς λέγομεν μέρη, μία τίς ἐστι τέχνη τῶν ὑπὸ πάντων λεγομένων, ἡ ταλασιουργική. 
STRANGER:
Carding and spinning threads and all the parts of the process which are concerned with the actual manufacture of a woollen garment form a single art, which is one of those universally acknowledged,--the art of working in wool. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; (282b) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To be sure. 
Ξένος
τῆς δὴ ταλασιουργικῆς δύο τμήματά ἐστον, καὶ τούτοιν ἑκάτερον ἅμα δυοῖν πεφύκατον τέχναιν μέρη. 
STRANGER:
Of working in wool, again, there are two divisions, and both these are parts of two arts at once. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How is that? 
Ξένος
τὸ μὲν ξαντικὸν καὶ τὸ τῆς κερκιστικῆς ἥμισυ καὶ ὅσα τὰ συγκείμενα ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων ἀφίστησι, πᾶν τοῦτο ὡς ἓν φράζειν τῆς τε ταλασιουργίας αὐτῆς ἐστί που, καὶ μεγάλα τινὲ κατὰ πάντα ἡμῖν ἤστην τέχνα, ἡ συγκριτική τε καὶ διακριτική. 
STRANGER:
Carding and one half of the use of the comb, and the other processes of wool-working which separate the composite, may be classed together as belonging both to the art of wool-working, and also to one of the two great arts which are of universal application--the art of composition and the art of division. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τῆς τοίνυν διακριτικῆς ἥ τε ξαντικὴ καὶ τὰ νυνδὴ (282c) ῥηθέντα ἅπαντά ἐστιν: ἡ γὰρ ἐν ἐρίοις τε καὶ στήμοσι διακριτική, κερκίδι μὲν ἄλλον τρόπον γιγνομένη, χερσὶ δὲ ἕτερον, ἔσχεν ὅσα ἀρτίως ὀνόματα ἐρρήθη. 
STRANGER:
To the latter belong carding and the other processes of which I was just now speaking; the art of discernment or division in wool and yarn, which is effected in one manner with the comb and in another with the hands, is variously described under all the names which I just now mentioned. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
αὖθις δὴ πάλιν συγκριτικῆς μόριον ἅμα καὶ ταλασιουργίας ἐν αὐτῇ γιγνόμενον λάβωμεν: ὅσα δὲ τῆς διακριτικῆς ἦν αὐτόθι, μεθιῶμεν σύμπαντα, δίχα τέμνοντες τὴν ταλασιουργίαν διακριτικῷ τε καὶ συγκριτικῷ τμήματι. 
STRANGER:
Again, let us take some process of wool-working which is also a portion of the art of composition, and, dismissing the elements of division which we found there, make two halves, one on the principle of composition, and the other on the principle of division. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
διῃρήσθω. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let that be done. 
Ξένος
τὸ συγκριτικὸν τοίνυν αὖ σοι καὶ ταλασιουργικὸν (282d) ἅμα μόριον, ὦ Σώκρατες, διαιρετέον, εἴπερ ἱκανῶς μέλλομεν τὴν προρρηθεῖσαν ὑφαντικὴν αἱρήσειν. 
STRANGER:
And once more, Socrates, we must divide the part which belongs at once both to wool-working and composition, if we are ever to discover satisfactorily the aforesaid art of weaving. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν χρή. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
We must. 
Ξένος
χρὴ μὲν οὖν: καὶ λέγωμέν γε αὐτῆς τὸ μὲν εἶναι στρεπτικόν, τὸ δὲ συμπλεκτικόν. 
STRANGER:
Yes, certainly, and let us call one part of the art the art of twisting threads, the other the art of combining them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἆρ᾽ οὖν μανθάνω; δοκεῖς γάρ μοι τὸ περὶ τὴν τοῦ στήμονος ἐργασίαν λέγειν στρεπτικόν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Do I understand you, in speaking of twisting, to be referring to manufacture of the warp? 
Ξένος
οὐ μόνον γε, ἀλλὰ καὶ κρόκης: ἢ γένεσιν ἄστροφόν τινα αὐτῆς εὑρήσομεν; 
STRANGER:
Yes, and of the woof too; how, if not by twisting, is the woof made? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς. (282e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
There is no other way. 
Ξένος
διόρισαι δὴ καὶ τούτοιν ἑκάτερον: ἴσως γὰρ ὁ διορισμὸς ἔγκαιρος ἄν σοι γένοιτο. 
STRANGER:
Then suppose that you define the warp and the woof, for I think that the definition will be of use to you. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῇ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How shall I define them? 
Ξένος
τῇδε: τῶν περὶ ξαντικὴν ἔργων μηκυνθέν τε καὶ σχὸν πλάτος λέγομεν εἶναι κάταγμά τι; 
STRANGER:
As thus: A piece of carded wool which is drawn out lengthwise and breadthwise is said to be pulled out. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τούτου δὴ τὸ μὲν ἀτράκτῳ τε στραφὲν καὶ στερεὸν νῆμα γενόμενον στήμονα μὲν φάθι τὸ νῆμα, τὴν δὲ ἀπευθύνουσαν αὐτὸ τέχνην εἶναι στημονονητικήν. 
STRANGER:
And the wool thus prepared, when twisted by the spindle, and made into a firm thread, is called the warp, and the art which regulates these operations the art of spinning the warp. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
ὅσα δέ γε αὖ τὴν μὲν συστροφὴν χαύνην λαμβάνει, τῇ δὲ τοῦ στήμονος ἐμπλέξει πρὸς τὴν τῆς γνάψεως ὁλκὴν ἐμμέτρως τὴν μαλακότητα ἴσχει, ταῦτ᾽ ἄρα κρόκην μὲν τὰ νηθέντα, τὴν δὲ ἐπιτεταγμένην αὐτοῖς εἶναι τέχνην τὴν (283a) κροκονητικὴν φῶμεν. 
STRANGER:
And the threads which are more loosely spun, having a softness proportioned to the intertexture of the warp and to the degree of force used in dressing the cloth,--the threads which are thus spun are called the woof, and the art which is set over them may be called the art of spinning the woof. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν τό γε τῆς ὑφαντικῆς μέρος ὃ προυθέμεθα, παντί που δῆλον ἤδη. 
τὸ γὰρ συγκριτικῆς τῆς ἐν ταλασιουργίᾳ μόριον ὅταν εὐθυπλοκίᾳ κρόκης καὶ στήμονος ἀπεργάζηται πλέγμα, τὸ μὲν πλεχθὲν σύμπαν ἐσθῆτα ἐρεᾶν, τὴν δ᾽ ἐπὶ τούτῳ τέχνην οὖσαν προσαγορεύομεν ὑφαντικήν. 
STRANGER:
And, now, there can be no mistake about the nature of the part of weaving which we have undertaken to define. 
For when that part of the art of composition which is employed in the working of wool forms a web by the regular intertexture of warp and woof, the entire woven substance is called by us a woollen garment, and the art which presides over this is the art of weaving. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. (283b) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
εἶεν: τί δή ποτε οὖν οὐκ εὐθὺς ἀπεκρινάμεθα πλεκτικὴν εἶναι κρόκης καὶ στήμονος ὑφαντικήν, ἀλλὰ περιήλθομεν ἐν κύκλῳ πάμπολλα διοριζόμενοι μάτην; 
STRANGER:
But why did we not say at once that weaving is the art of entwining warp and woof, instead of making a long and useless circuit? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὔκουν ἔμοιγε, ὦ ξένε, μάτην οὐδὲν τῶν ῥηθέντων ἔδοξε ῥηθῆναι. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I thought, Stranger, that there was nothing useless in what was said. 
Ξένος
καὶ θαυμαστόν γε οὐδέν: ἀλλὰ τάχ᾽ ἄν, ὦ μακάριε, δόξειε. πρὸς δὴ τὸ νόσημα τὸ τοιοῦτον, ἂν ἄρα πολλάκις ὕστερον ἐπίῃ—θαυμαστὸν γὰρ οὐδέν—λόγον ἄκουσόν τινα (283c) προσήκοντα περὶ πάντων τῶν τοιούτων ῥηθῆναι. 
STRANGER:
Very likely, but you may not always think so, my sweet friend; and in case any feeling of dissatisfaction should hereafter arise in your mind, as it very well may, let me lay down a principle which will apply to arguments in general. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγε μόνον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Proceed. 
Ξένος
πρῶτον τοίνυν ἴδωμεν πᾶσαν τήν τε ὑπερβολὴν καὶ τὴν ἔλλειψιν, ἵνα κατὰ λόγον ἐπαινῶμεν καὶ ψέγωμεν τὰ μακρότερα τοῦ δέοντος ἑκάστοτε λεγόμενα καὶ τἀναντία περὶ τὰς τοιάσδε διατριβάς. 
STRANGER:
Let us begin by considering the whole nature of excess and defect, and then we shall have a rational ground on which we may praise or blame too much length or too much shortness in discussions of this kind. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν χρή. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let us do so. 
Ξένος
περὶ δὴ τούτων αὐτῶν ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν οἶμαι γιγνόμενος ὀρθῶς ἂν γίγνοιτο. 
STRANGER:
The points on which I think that we ought to dwell are the following:-- 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνων; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
μήκους τε πέρι καὶ βραχύτητος καὶ πάσης ὑπεροχῆς (283d) τε καὶ ἐλλείψεως: ἡ γάρ που μετρητικὴ περὶ πάντ᾽ ἐστὶ ταῦτα. 
STRANGER:
Length and shortness, excess and defect; with all of these the art of measurement is conversant. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
διέλωμεν τοίνυν αὐτὴν δύο μέρη: δεῖ γὰρ δὴ πρὸς ὃ νῦν σπεύδομεν. 
STRANGER:
And the art of measurement has to be divided into two parts, with a view to our present purpose. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγοις ἂν τὴν διαίρεσιν ὅπῃ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Where would you make the division? 
Ξένος
τῇδε: τὸ μὲν κατὰ τὴν πρὸς ἄλληλα μεγέθους καὶ σμικρότητος κοινωνίαν, τὸ δὲ τὸ κατὰ τὴν τῆς γενέσεως ἀναγκαίαν οὐσίαν. 
STRANGER:
As thus: I would make two parts, one having regard to the relativity of greatness and smallness to each other; and there is another, without which the existence of production would be impossible. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὐ κατὰ φύσιν δοκεῖ σοι τὸ μεῖζον μηδενὸς ἑτέρου δεῖν μεῖζον λέγειν ἢ τοῦ ἐλάττονος, καὶ τοὔλαττον αὖ (283e) τοῦ μείζονος ἔλαττον, ἄλλου δὲ μηδενός; 
STRANGER:
Do you not think that it is only natural for the greater to be called greater with reference to the less alone, and the less less with reference to the greater alone? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔμοιγε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; τὸ τὴν τοῦ μετρίου φύσιν ὑπερβάλλον καὶ ὑπερβαλλόμενον ὑπ᾽ αὐτῆς ἐν λόγοις εἴτε καὶ ἐν ἔργοις ἆρ᾽ οὐκ αὖ λέξομεν ὡς ὄντως γιγνόμενον, ἐν ᾧ καὶ διαφέρουσι μάλιστα ἡμῶν οἵ τε κακοὶ καὶ οἱ ἀγαθοί; 
STRANGER:
Well, but is there not also something exceeding and exceeded by the principle of the mean, both in speech and action, and is not this a reality, and the chief mark of difference between good and bad men? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Plainly. 
Ξένος
διττὰς ἄρα ταύτας οὐσίας καὶ κρίσεις τοῦ μεγάλου καὶ τοῦ σμικροῦ θετέον, ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ ὡς ἔφαμεν ἄρτι πρὸς ἄλληλα μόνον δεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ὥσπερ νῦν εἴρηται μᾶλλον τὴν μὲν πρὸς ἄλληλα λεκτέον, τὴν δ᾽ αὖ πρὸς τὸ μέτριον: οὗ δὲ ἕνεκα, μαθεῖν ἆρ᾽ ἂν βουλοίμεθα; 
STRANGER:
Then we must suppose that the great and small exist and are discerned in both these ways, and not, as we were saying before, only relatively to one another, but there must also be another comparison of them with the mean or ideal standard; would you like to hear the reason why? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
(284a) Ξένος
εἰ πρὸς μηδὲν ἕτερον τὴν τοῦ μείζονος ἐάσει τις φύσιν ἢ πρὸς τοὔλαττον, οὐκ ἔσται ποτὲ πρὸς τὸ μέτριον: ἦ γάρ; 
STRANGER:
If we assume the greater to exist only in relation to the less, there will never be any comparison of either with the mean. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν τὰς τέχνας τε αὐτὰς καὶ τἆργα αὐτῶν σύμπαντα διολοῦμεν τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὴν ζητουμένην νῦν πολιτικὴν καὶ τὴν ῥηθεῖσαν ὑφαντικὴν ἀφανιοῦμεν; ἅπασαι γὰρ αἱ τοιαῦταί που τὸ τοῦ μετρίου πλέον καὶ ἔλαττον οὐχ ὡς οὐκ ὂν ἀλλ᾽ ὡς ὂν χαλεπὸν περὶ τὰς πράξεις (284b) παραφυλάττουσι, καὶ τούτῳ δὴ τῷ τρόπῳ τὸ μέτρον σῴζουσαι πάντα ἀγαθὰ καὶ καλὰ ἀπεργάζονται. 
STRANGER:
And would not this doctrine be the ruin of all the arts and their creations; would not the art of the Statesman and the aforesaid art of weaving disappear? For all these arts are on the watch against excess and defect, not as unrealities, but as real evils, which occasion a difficulty in action; and the excellence or beauty of every work of art is due to this observance of measure. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἂν τὴν πολιτικὴν ἀφανίσωμεν, ἄπορος ἡμῖν ἡ μετὰ τοῦτο ἔσται ζήτησις τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐπιστήμης; 
STRANGER:
But if the science of the Statesman disappears, the search for the royal science will be impossible. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ μάλα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
πότερον οὖν, καθάπερ ἐν τῷ σοφιστῇ προσηναγκάσαμεν εἶναι τὸ μὴ ὄν, ἐπειδὴ κατὰ τοῦτο διέφυγεν ἡμᾶς ὁ λόγος, οὕτω καὶ νῦν τὸ πλέον αὖ καὶ ἔλαττον μετρητὰ προσαναγκαστέον γίγνεσθαι μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ (284c) πρὸς τὴν τοῦ μετρίου γένεσιν; οὐ γὰρ δὴ δυνατόν γε οὔτε πολιτικὸν οὔτ᾽ ἄλλον τινὰ τῶν περὶ τὰς πράξεις ἐπιστήμονα ἀναμφισβητήτως γεγονέναι τούτου μὴ συνομολογηθέντος. 
STRANGER:
Well, then, as in the case of the Sophist we extorted the inference that not-being had an existence, because here was the point at which the argument eluded our grasp, so in this we must endeavour to show that the greater and less are not only to be measured with one another, but also have to do with the production of the mean; for if this is not admitted, neither a statesman nor any other man of action can be an undisputed master of his science. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν καὶ νῦν ὅτι μάλιστα χρὴ ταὐτὸν ποιεῖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, we must certainly do again what we did then. 
Ξένος
πλέον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔτι τοῦτο τὸ ἔργον ἢ 'κεῖνο— καίτοι κἀκείνου γε μεμνήμεθα τὸ μῆκος ὅσον ἦν—ἀλλ᾽ ὑποτίθεσθαι μὲν τὸ τοιόνδε περὶ αὐτῶν καὶ μάλα δίκαιον. 
STRANGER:
But this, Socrates, is a greater work than the other, of which we only too well remember the length. I think, however, that we may fairly assume something of this sort-- 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; (284d) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
Ξένος
ὥς ποτε δεήσει τοῦ νῦν λεχθέντος πρὸς τὴν περὶ αὐτὸ τἀκριβὲς ἀπόδειξιν. ὅτι δὲ πρὸς τὰ νῦν καλῶς καὶ ἱκανῶς δείκνυται, δοκεῖ μοι βοηθεῖν μεγαλοπρεπῶς ἡμῖν οὗτος ὁ λόγος, ὡς ἄρα ἡγητέον ὁμοίως τὰς τέχνας πάσας εἶναι, μεῖζόν τε ἅμα καὶ ἔλαττον μετρεῖσθαι μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ πρὸς τὴν τοῦ μετρίου γένεσιν. 
τούτου τε γὰρ ὄντος ἐκεῖνα ἔστι, κἀκείνων οὐσῶν ἔστι καὶ τοῦτο, μὴ δὲ ὄντος ποτέρου τούτων οὐδέτερον αὐτῶν ἔσται ποτέ. (284e) 
STRANGER:
That we shall some day require this notion of a mean with a view to the demonstration of absolute truth; meanwhile, the argument that the very existence of the arts must be held to depend on the possibility of measuring more or less, not only with one another, but also with a view to the attainment of the mean, seems to afford a grand support and satisfactory proof of the doctrine which we are maintaining; 
for if there are arts, there is a standard of measure, and if there is a standard of measure, there are arts; but if either is wanting, there is neither. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθῶς: ἀλλὰ τί δὴ τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True; and what is the next step? 
Ξένος
δῆλον ὅτι διαιροῖμεν ἂν τὴν μετρητικήν, καθάπερ ἐρρήθη, ταύτῃ δίχα τέμνοντες, ἓν μὲν τιθέντες αὐτῆς μόριον συμπάσας τέχνας ὁπόσαι τὸν ἀριθμὸν καὶ μήκη καὶ βάθη καὶ πλάτη καὶ ταχυτῆτας πρὸς τοὐναντίον μετροῦσιν, τὸ δὲ ἕτερον, ὁπόσαι πρὸς τὸ μέτριον καὶ τὸ πρέπον καὶ τὸν καιρὸν καὶ τὸ δέον καὶ πάνθ᾽ ὁπόσα εἰς τὸ μέσον ἀπῳκίσθη τῶν ἐσχάτων. 
STRANGER:
The next step clearly is to divide the art of measurement into two parts, as we have said already, and to place in the one part all the arts which measure number, length, depth, breadth, swiftness with their opposites; and to have another part in which they are measured with the mean, and the fit, and the opportune, and the due, and with all those words, in short, which denote a mean or standard removed from the extremes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ μέγα γε ἑκάτερον τμῆμα εἶπες, καὶ πολὺ διαφέρον ἀλλήλοιν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Here are two vast divisions, embracing two very different spheres. 
Ξένος
ὃ γὰρ ἐνίοτε, ὦ Σώκρατες, οἰόμενοι δή τι σοφὸν (285a) φράζειν πολλοὶ τῶν κομψῶν λέγουσιν, ὡς ἄρα μετρητικὴ περὶ πάντ᾽ ἐστὶ τὰ γιγνόμενα, τοῦτ᾽ αὐτὸ τὸ νῦν λεχθὲν ὂν τυγχάνει. 
μετρήσεως μὲν γὰρ δή τινα τρόπον πάνθ᾽ ὁπόσα ἔντεχνα μετείληφεν: διὰ δὲ τὸ μὴ κατ᾽ εἴδη συνειθίσθαι σκοπεῖν διαιρουμένους ταῦτά τε τοσοῦτον διαφέροντα συμβάλλουσιν εὐθὺς εἰς ταὐτὸν ὅμοια νομίσαντες, καὶ τοὐναντίον αὖ τούτου δρῶσιν ἕτερα οὐ κατὰ μέρη διαιροῦντες, δέον, ὅταν (285b) μὲν τὴν τῶν πολλῶν τις πρότερον αἴσθηται κοινωνίαν, μὴ προαφίστασθαι πρὶν ἂν ἐν αὐτῇ τὰς διαφορὰς ἴδῃ πάσας ὁπόσαιπερ ἐν εἴδεσι κεῖνται, τὰς δὲ αὖ παντοδαπὰς ἀνομοιότητας, ὅταν ἐν πλήθεσιν ὀφθῶσιν, μὴ δυνατὸν εἶναι δυσωπούμενον παύεσθαι πρὶν ἂν σύμπαντα τὰ οἰκεῖα ἐντὸς μιᾶς ὁμοιότητος ἕρξας γένους τινὸς οὐσίᾳ περιβάληται.  ταῦτα μὲν οὖν ἱκανῶς περί τε τούτων καὶ περὶ τῶν ἐλλείψεων καὶ ὑπερβολῶν εἰρήσθω: φυλάττωμεν δὲ μόνον ὅτι δύο γένη (285c) περὶ αὐτὰ ἐξηύρηται τῆς μετρητικῆς, καὶ ἅ φαμεν αὔτ᾽ εἶναι μεμνώμεθα. 
STRANGER:
There are many accomplished men, Socrates, who say, believing themselves to speak wisely, that the art of measurement is universal, and has to do with all things. And this means what we are now saying; for all things which come within the province of art do certainly in some sense partake of measure. 
But these persons, because they are not accustomed to distinguish classes according to real forms, jumble together two widely different things, relation to one another, and to a standard, under the idea that they are the same, and also fall into the converse error of dividing other things not according to their real parts. Whereas the right way is, if a man has first seen the unity of things, to go on with the enquiry and not desist until he has found all the differences contained in it which form distinct classes; nor again should he be able to rest contented with the manifold diversities which are seen in a multitude of things until he has comprehended all of them that have any affinity within the bounds of one similarity and embraced them within the reality of a single kind.  But we have said enough on this head, and also of excess and defect; we have only to bear in mind that two divisions of the art of measurement have been discovered which are concerned with them, and not forget what they are. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
μεμνησόμεθα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
We will not forget. 
Ξένος
μετὰ τοῦτον δὴ τὸν λόγον ἕτερον προσδεξώμεθα περὶ αὐτῶν τε τῶν ζητουμένων καὶ περὶ πάσης τῆς ἐν τοῖς τοιοῖσδε λόγοις διατριβῆς. 
STRANGER:
And now that this discussion is completed, let us go on to consider another question, which concerns not this argument only but the conduct of such arguments in general. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is this new question? 
Ξένος
εἴ τις ἀνέροιτο ἡμᾶς τὴν περὶ γράμματα συνουσίαν τῶν μανθανόντων, ὁπόταν τις ὁτιοῦν ὄνομα ἐρωτηθῇ τίνων ἐστὶ γραμμάτων, πότερον αὐτῷ τότε φῶμεν γίγνεσθαι τὴν (285d) ζήτησιν ἑνὸς ἕνεκα μᾶλλον τοῦ προβληθέντος ἢ τοῦ περὶ πάντα τὰ προβαλλόμενα γραμματικωτέρῳ γίγνεσθαι; 
STRANGER:
Take the case of a child who is engaged in learning his letters: when he is asked what letters make up a word, should we say that the question is intended to improve his grammatical knowledge of that particular word, or of all words? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον ὅτι τοῦ περὶ ἅπαντα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly, in order that he may have a better knowledge of all words. 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽ αὖ νῦν ἡμῖν ἡ περὶ τοῦ πολιτικοῦ ζήτησις; ἕνεκα αὐτοῦ τούτου προβέβληται μᾶλλον ἢ τοῦ περὶ πάντα διαλεκτικωτέροις γίγνεσθαι; 
STRANGER:
And is our enquiry about the Statesman intended only to improve our knowledge of politics, or our power of reasoning generally? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ τοῦτο δῆλον ὅτι τοῦ περὶ πάντα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly, as in the former example, the purpose is general. 
Ξένος
ἦ που τὸν τῆς ὑφαντικῆς γε λόγον αὐτῆς ταύτης ἕνεκα θηρεύειν οὐδεὶς ἂν ἐθελήσειεν νοῦν ἔχων: ἀλλ᾽ οἶμαι τοὺς πλείστους λέληθεν ὅτι τοῖς μὲν τῶν ὄντων ῥᾳδίως (285e) καταμαθεῖν αἰσθηταί τινες ὁμοιότητες πεφύκασιν, ἃς οὐδὲν χαλεπὸν δηλοῦν, ὅταν αὐτῶν τις βουληθῇ τῷ λόγον αἰτοῦντι περί του μὴ μετὰ πραγμάτων ἀλλὰ χωρὶς λόγου ῥᾳδίως ἐνδείξασθαι: τοῖς δ᾽ αὖ μεγίστοις οὖσι καὶ τιμιωτάτοις (286a) οὐκ ἔστιν εἴδωλον οὐδὲν πρὸς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους εἰργασμένον ἐναργῶς, οὗ δειχθέντος τὴν τοῦ πυνθανομένου ψυχὴν ὁ βουλόμενος ἀποπληρῶσαι, πρὸς τῶν αἰσθήσεών τινα προσαρμόττων, ἱκανῶς πληρώσει. 
διὸ δεῖ μελετᾶν λόγον ἑκάστου δυνατὸν εἶναι δοῦναι καὶ δέξασθαι: τὰ γὰρ ἀσώματα, κάλλιστα ὄντα καὶ μέγιστα, λόγῳ μόνον ἄλλῳ δὲ οὐδενὶ σαφῶς δείκνυται, τούτων δὲ ἕνεκα πάντ᾽ ἐστὶ τὰ νῦν λεγόμενα. ῥᾴων (286b) δ᾽ ἐν τοῖς ἐλάττοσιν ἡ μελέτη παντὸς πέρι μᾶλλον ἢ περὶ τὰ μείζω. 
STRANGER:
Still less would any rational man seek to analyse the notion of weaving for its own sake. But people seem to forget that some things have sensible images, which are readily known, and can be easily pointed out when any one desires to answer an enquirer without any trouble or argument; whereas the greatest and highest truths have no outward image of themselves visible to man, which he who wishes to satisfy the soul of the enquirer can adapt to the eye of sense (compare Phaedr.), 
and therefore we ought to train ourselves to give and accept a rational account of them; for immaterial things, which are the noblest and greatest, are shown only in thought and idea, and in no other way, and all that we are now saying is said for the sake of them. Moreover, there is always less difficulty in fixing the mind on small matters than on great. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κάλλιστ᾽ εἶπες. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
ὧν τοίνυν χάριν ἅπανθ᾽ ἡμῖν ταῦτ᾽ ἐρρήθη περὶ τούτων, μνησθῶμεν. 
STRANGER:
Let us call to mind the bearing of all this. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνων; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
ταύτης τε οὐχ ἥκιστα αὐτῆς ἕνεκα τῆς δυσχερείας ἣν περὶ τὴν μακρολογίαν τὴν περὶ τὴν ὑφαντικὴν ἀπεδεξάμεθα δυσχερῶς, καὶ τὴν περὶ τὴν τοῦ παντὸς ἀνείλιξιν καὶ τὴν τοῦ σοφιστοῦ πέρι τῆς τοῦ μὴ ὄντος οὐσίας, ἐννοοῦντες ὡς ἔσχε μῆκος πλέον, καὶ ἐπὶ τούτοις δὴ πᾶσιν ἐπεπλήξαμεν (286c) ἡμῖν αὐτοῖς, δείσαντες μὴ περίεργα ἅμα καὶ μακρὰ λέγοιμεν. 
ἵν᾽ οὖν εἰς αὖθις μηδὲν πάσχωμεν τοιοῦτον, τούτων ἕνεκα πάντων τὰ πρόσθε νῷν εἰρῆσθαι φάθι. 
STRANGER:
I wanted to get rid of any impression of tediousness which we may have experienced in the discussion about weaving, and the reversal of the universe, and in the discussion concerning the Sophist and the being of not-being. I know that they were felt to be too long, and I reproached myself with this, fearing that they might be not only tedious but irrelevant; 
and all that I have now said is only designed to prevent the recurrence of any such disagreeables for the future. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ταῦτ᾽ ἔσται. λέγε ἑξῆς μόνον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. Will you proceed? 
Ξένος
λέγω τοίνυν ὅτι χρὴ δὴ μεμνημένους ἐμὲ καὶ σὲ τῶν νῦν εἰρημένων τόν τε ψόγον ἑκάστοτε καὶ ἔπαινον ποιεῖσθαι βραχύτητος ἅμα καὶ μήκους ὧν ἂν ἀεὶ πέρι λέγωμεν, μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα τὰ μήκη κρίνοντες ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸ (286d) τῆς μετρητικῆς μέρος ὃ τότε ἔφαμεν δεῖν μεμνῆσθαι, πρὸς τὸ πρέπον. 
STRANGER:
Then I would like to observe that you and I, remembering what has been said, should praise or blame the length or shortness of discussions, not by comparing them with one another, but with what is fitting, having regard to the part of measurement, which, as we said, was to be borne in mind. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
οὐ τοίνυν οὐδὲ πρὸς τοῦτο πάντα. οὔτε γὰρ πρὸς τὴν ἡδονὴν μήκους ἁρμόττοντος οὐδὲν προσδεησόμεθα, πλὴν εἰ πάρεργόν τι: τό τε αὖ πρὸς τὴν τοῦ προβληθέντος ζήτησιν, ὡς ἂν ῥᾷστα καὶ τάχιστα εὕροιμεν, δεύτερον ἀλλ᾽ οὐ πρῶτον ὁ λόγος ἀγαπᾶν παραγγέλλει, πολὺ δὲ μάλιστα καὶ πρῶτον τὴν μέθοδον αὐτὴν τιμᾶν τοῦ κατ᾽ εἴδη δυνατὸν εἶναι διαιρεῖν, (286e) καὶ δὴ καὶ λόγον, ἄντε παμμήκης λεχθεὶς τὸν ἀκούσαντα εὑρετικώτερον ἀπεργάζηται, τοῦτον σπουδάζειν καὶ τῷ μήκει μηδὲν ἀγανακτεῖν, ἄντ᾽ αὖ βραχύτερος, ὡσαύτως: ἔτι δ᾽ αὖ πρὸς τούτοις τὸν περὶ τὰς τοιάσδε συνουσίας ψέγοντα λόγων μήκη καὶ τὰς ἐν κύκλῳ περιόδους οὐκ ἀποδεχόμενον, ὅτι χρὴ τὸν τοιοῦτον μὴ πάνυ ταχὺ μηδ᾽ εὐθὺς οὕτω μεθιέναι ψέξαντα (287a) μόνον ὡς μακρὰ τὰ λεχθέντα, ἀλλὰ καὶ προσαποφαίνειν οἴεσθαι δεῖν ὡς βραχύτερα ἂν γενόμενα τοὺς συνόντας ἀπηργάζετο διαλεκτικωτέρους καὶ τῆς τῶν ὄντων λόγῳ δηλώσεως εὑρετικωτέρους, τῶν δὲ ἄλλων καὶ πρὸς ἄλλ᾽ ἄττα ψόγων καὶ ἐπαίνων μηδὲν φροντίζειν μηδὲ τὸ παράπαν ἀκούειν δοκεῖν τῶν τοιούτων λόγων. 
καὶ τούτων μὲν ἅλις, εἰ καὶ σοὶ ταύτῃ συνδοκεῖ: πρὸς δὲ δὴ τὸν πολιτικὸν (287b) ἴωμεν πάλιν, τῆς προρρηθείσης ὑφαντικῆς αὐτῷ φέροντες τὸ παράδειγμα. 
STRANGER:
And yet, not everything is to be judged even with a view to what is fitting; for we should only want such a length as is suited to give pleasure, if at all, as a secondary matter; and reason tells us, that we should be contented to make the ease or rapidity of an enquiry, not our first, but our second object; the first and highest of all being to assert the great method of division according to species--whether the discourse be shorter or longer is not to the point. No offence should be taken at length, but the longer and shorter are to be employed indifferently, according as either of them is better calculated to sharpen the wits of the auditors. Reason would also say to him who censures the length of discourses on such occasions and cannot away with their circumlocution, that he should not be in such a hurry to have done with them, when he can only complain that they are tedious, but he should prove that if they had been shorter they would have made those who took part in them better dialecticians, and more capable of expressing the truth of things; about any other praise and blame, he need not trouble himself--he should pretend not to hear them. 
But we have had enough of this, as you will probably agree with me in thinking. Let us return to our Statesman, and apply to his case the aforesaid example of weaving. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς εἶπες, καὶ ποιῶμεν ἃ λέγεις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good;--let us do as you say. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἀπό γε τῶν πολλῶν ὁ βασιλεὺς ὅσαι σύννομοι, μᾶλλον δὲ ἀπὸ πασῶν τῶν περὶ τὰς ἀγέλας διακεχώρισται: λοιπαὶ δέ, φαμέν, αἱ κατὰ πόλιν αὐτὴν τῶν τε συναιτίων καὶ τῶν αἰτίων, ἃς πρώτας ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων διαιρετέον. 
STRANGER:
The art of the king has been separated from the similar arts of shepherds, and, indeed, from all those which have to do with herds at all. There still remain, however, of the causal and co-operative arts those which are immediately concerned with States, and which must first be distinguished from one another. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
οἶσθ᾽ οὖν ὅτι χαλεπὸν αὐτὰς τεμεῖν δίχα; τὸ δ᾽ (287c) αἴτιον, ὡς οἶμαι, προϊοῦσιν οὐχ ἧττον ἔσται καταφανές. 
STRANGER:
You know that these arts cannot easily be divided into two halves; the reason will be very evident as we proceed. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν χρὴ δρᾶν οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Then we had better do so. 
Ξένος
κατὰ μέλη τοίνυν αὐτὰς οἷον ἱερεῖον διαιρώμεθα, ἐπειδὴ δίχα ἀδυνατοῦμεν. δεῖ γὰρ εἰς τὸν ἐγγύτατα ὅτι μάλιστα τέμνειν ἀριθμὸν ἀεί. 
STRANGER:
We must carve them like a victim into members or limbs, since we cannot bisect them. (Compare Phaedr.) For we certainly should divide everything into as few parts as possible. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς οὖν ποιῶμεν τὰ νῦν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is to be done in this case? 
Ξένος
ὥσπερ ἔμπροσθεν, ὁπόσαι παρείχοντο ὄργανα περὶ τὴν ὑφαντικήν, πάσας δήπου τότε ἐτίθεμεν ὡς συναιτίους. 
STRANGER:
What we did in the example of weaving--all those arts which furnish the tools were regarded by us as co-operative. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
καὶ νῦν δὴ ταὐτὸν μὲν τοῦτο, ἔτι δὲ μᾶλλον ἢ τόθ᾽ (287d) ἡμῖν ποιητέον. ὅσαι γὰρ σμικρὸν ἢ μέγα τι δημιουργοῦσι κατὰ πόλιν ὄργανον, θετέον ἁπάσας ταύτας ὡς οὔσας συναιτίους. ἄνευ γὰρ τούτων οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο πόλις οὐδὲ πολιτική, τούτων δ᾽ αὖ βασιλικῆς ἔργον τέχνης οὐδέν που θήσομεν. 
STRANGER:
So now, and with still more reason, all arts which make any implement in a State, whether great or small, may be regarded by us as co-operative, for without them neither State nor Statesmanship would be possible; and yet we are not inclined to say that any of them is a product of the kingly art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐ γάρ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
No, indeed. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὲν δὴ χαλεπὸν ἐπιχειροῦμεν δρᾶν ἀποχωρίζοντες τοῦτο ἀπὸ τῶν ἄλλων τὸ γένος: ὅτι γὰρ οὖν τῶν ὄντων ἔστιν ὡς ἑνός γέ τινος ὄργανον εἰπόντα δοκεῖν εἰρηκέναι (287e) τι πιθανόν. ὅμως δὲ ἕτερον αὖ τῶν ἐν πόλει κτημάτων εἴπωμεν τόδε. 
STRANGER:
The task of separating this class from others is not an easy one; for there is plausibility in saying that anything in the world is the instrument of doing something. But there is another class of possessions in a city, of which I have a word to say. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What class do you mean? 
Ξένος
ὡς οὐκ ἔστι ταύτην τὴν δύναμιν ἔχον. οὐ γὰρ ἐπὶ γενέσεως αἰτίᾳ πήγνυται, καθάπερ ὄργανον, ἀλλ᾽ ἕνεκα τοῦ δημιουργηθέντος σωτηρίας. 
STRANGER:
A class which may be described as not having this power; that is to say, not like an instrument, framed for production, but designed for the preservation of that which is produced. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To what do you refer? 
Ξένος
τοῦτο ὃ δὴ ξηροῖς καὶ ὑγροῖς καὶ ἐμπύροις καὶ ἀπύροις παντοδαπὸν εἶδος ἐργασθὲν ἀγγεῖον ὃ δὴ μιᾷ κλήσει προσφθεγγόμεθα, καὶ μάλα γε συχνὸν εἶδος καὶ τῇ ζητουμένῃ (288a) γε, ὡς οἶμαι, προσῆκον οὐδὲν ἀτεχνῶς ἐπιστήμῃ. 
STRANGER:
To the class of vessels, as they are comprehensively termed, which are constructed for the preservation of things moist and dry, of things prepared in the fire or out of the fire; this is a very large class, and has, if I am not mistaken, literally nothing to do with the royal art of which we are in search. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
τούτων δὴ τρίτον ἕτερον εἶδος κτημάτων πάμπολυ κατοπτέον πεζὸν καὶ ἔνυδρον καὶ πολυπλανὲς καὶ ἀπλανὲς καὶ τίμιον καὶ ἄτιμον, ἓν δὲ ὄνομα ἔχον, διότι πᾶν ἕνεκά τινος ἐφέδρας ἐστί, θᾶκος ἀεί τινι γιγνόμενον. 
STRANGER:
There is also a third class of possessions to be noted, different from these and very extensive, moving or resting on land or water, honourable and also dishonourable. The whole of this class has one name, because it is intended to be sat upon, being always a seat for something. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
ὄχημα αὐτό που λέγομεν, οὐ πάνυ πολιτικῆς ἔργον, ἀλλὰ μᾶλλον πολὺ τεκτονικῆς καὶ κεραμικῆς καὶ χαλκοτυπικῆς. 
STRANGER:
A vehicle, which is certainly not the work of the Statesman, but of the carpenter, potter, and coppersmith. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
μανθάνω. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I understand. 
(288b) Ξένος
τί δὲ τέταρτον; ἆρ᾽ ἕτερον εἶναι τούτων λεκτέον, ἐν ᾧ τὰ πλεῖστά ἐστι τῶν πάλαι ῥηθέντων, ἐσθής τε σύμπασα καὶ τῶν ὅπλων τὸ πολὺ καὶ τείχη πάντα θ᾽ ὅσα γήινα περιβλήματα καὶ λίθινα, καὶ μυρία ἕτερα; προβολῆς δὲ ἕνεκα συμπάντων αὐτῶν εἰργασμένων δικαιότατ᾽ ἂν ὅλον προσαγορεύοιτο πρόβλημα, καὶ πολλῷ μᾶλλον τέχνης οἰκοδομικῆς ἔργον καὶ ὑφαντικῆς τὸ πλεῖστον νομίζοιτ᾽ ἂν ὀρθότερον ἢ πολιτικῆς. 
STRANGER:
And is there not a fourth class which is again different, and in which most of the things formerly mentioned are contained,--every kind of dress, most sorts of arms, walls and enclosures, whether of earth or stone, and ten thousand other things? all of which being made for the sake of defence, may be truly called defences, and are for the most part to be regarded as the work of the builder or of the weaver, rather than of the Statesman. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
(288c) Ξένος
πέμπτον δὲ ἆρ᾽ ἂν ἐθέλοιμεν τὸ περὶ τὸν κόσμον καὶ γραφικὴν θεῖναι καὶ ὅσα ταύτῃ προσχρώμενα καὶ μουσικῇ μιμήματα τελεῖται, πρὸς τὰς ἡδονὰς μόνον ἡμῶν ἀπειργασμένα, δικαίως δ᾽ ἂν ὀνόματι περιληφθέντα ἑνί; 
STRANGER:
Shall we add a fifth class, of ornamentation and drawing, and of the imitations produced by drawing and music, which are designed for amusement only, and may be fairly comprehended under one name? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποίῳ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
παίγνιόν πού τι λέγεται. 
STRANGER:
Plaything is the name. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τοῦτο τοίνυν τούτοις ἓν ὄνομα ἅπασι πρέψει προσαγορευθέν: οὐ γὰρ σπουδῆς οὐδὲν αὐτῶν χάριν, ἀλλὰ παιδιᾶς ἕνεκα πάντα δρᾶται. (288d) 
STRANGER:
That one name may be fitly predicated of all of them, for none of these things have a serious purpose--amusement is their sole aim. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ τοῦτο σχεδόν τι μανθάνω. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That again I understand. 
Ξένος
τὸ δὲ πᾶσιν τούτοις σώματα παρέχον, ἐξ ὧν καὶ ἐν οἷς δημιουργοῦσιν ὁπόσαι τῶν τεχνῶν νῦν εἴρηνται, παντοδαπὸν εἶδος πολλῶν ἑτέρων τεχνῶν ἔκγονον ὄν, ἆρ᾽ οὐχ ἕκτον θήσομεν; 
STRANGER:
Then there is a class which provides materials for all these, out of which and in which the arts already mentioned fabricate their works;--this manifold class, I say, which is the creation and offspring of many other arts, may I not rank sixth? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
χρυσόν τε καὶ ἄργυρον καὶ πάνθ᾽ ὁπόσα μεταλλεύεται καὶ ὅσα δρυοτομικὴ καὶ κουρὰ σύμπασα τέμνουσα παρέχει τεκτονικῇ καὶ πλεκτικῇ: καὶ ἔτι φλοιστικὴ φυτῶν (288e) τε καὶ ἐμψύχων δέρματα σωμάτων περιαιροῦσα σκυτοτομική, καὶ ὅσαι περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτά εἰσιν τέχναι, καὶ φελλῶν καὶ βύβλων καὶ δεσμῶν ἐργαστικαὶ παρέσχον δημιουργεῖν σύνθετα ἐκ μὴ συντιθεμένων εἴδη γενῶν. 
ἓν δὲ αὐτὸ προσαγορεύομεν πᾶν τὸ πρωτογενὲς ἀνθρώποις κτῆμα καὶ ἀσύνθετον καὶ βασιλικῆς ἐπιστήμης οὐδαμῶς ἔργον ὄν. 
STRANGER:
I am referring to gold, silver, and other metals, and all that wood-cutting and shearing of every sort provides for the art of carpentry and plaiting; and there is the process of barking and stripping the cuticle of plants, and the currier's art, which strips off the skins of animals, and other similar arts which manufacture corks and papyri and cords, and provide for the manufacture of composite species out of simple kinds 
--the whole class may be termed the primitive and simple possession of man, and with this the kingly science has no concern at all. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τὴν δὴ τῆς τροφῆς κτῆσιν, καὶ ὅσα εἰς τὸ σῶμα συγκαταμειγνύμενα ἑαυτῶν μέρεσι μέρη σώματος εἰς τὸ (289a) θεραπεῦσαί τινα δύναμιν εἴληχε, λεκτέον ἕβδομον ὀνομάσαντας αὐτὸ σύμπαν ἡμῶν εἶναι τροφόν, εἰ μή τι κάλλιον ἔχομεν ἄλλο θέσθαι: γεωργικῇ δὲ καὶ θηρευτικῇ καὶ γυμναστικῇ καὶ ἰατρικῇ καὶ μαγειρικῇ πᾶν ὑποτιθέντες ὀρθότερον ἀποδώσομεν ἢ τῇ πολιτικῇ. 
STRANGER:
The provision of food and of all other things which mingle their particles with the particles of the human body, and minister to the body, will form a seventh class, which may be called by the general term of nourishment, unless you have any better name to offer. This, however, appertains rather to the husbandman, huntsman, trainer, doctor, cook, and is not to be assigned to the Statesman's art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
σχεδὸν τοίνυν ὅσα ἔχεται κτήσεως, πλὴν τῶν ἡμέρων ζῴων, ἐν τούτοις ἑπτὰ οἶμαι γένεσιν εἰρῆσθαι. 
σκόπει δέ: ἦν γὰρ δικαιότατα μὲν ἂν τεθὲν κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς τὸ (289b) πρωτογενὲς εἶδος, μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο ὄργανον, ἀγγεῖον, ὄχημα, πρόβλημα, παίγνιον, θρέμμα.  ἃ παραλείπομεν δέ, εἴ τι μὴ μέγα λέληθεν, εἴς τι τούτων δυνατὸν ἁρμόττειν, οἷον ἡ τοῦ νομίσματος ἰδέα καὶ σφραγίδων καὶ παντὸς χαρακτῆρος.  γένος τε γὰρ ἐν αὑτοῖς ταῦτα οὐδὲν ἔχει μέγα σύννομον, ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν εἰς κόσμον, τὰ δὲ εἰς ὄργανα βίᾳ μέν, ὅμως δὲ πάντως ἑλκόμενα συμφωνήσει.  τὰ δὲ περὶ ζῴων κτῆσιν τῶν ἡμέρων, πλὴν δούλων, ἡ (289c) πρότερον ἀγελαιοτροφικὴ διαμερισθεῖσα πάντ᾽ εἰληφυῖα ἀναφανεῖται. 
STRANGER:
These seven classes include nearly every description of property, with the exception of tame animals. 
Consider;--there was the original material, which ought to have been placed first; next come instruments, vessels, vehicles, defences, playthings, nourishment; small things, which may be included under one of these-  -as for example, coins, seals and stamps, are omitted, for they have not in them the character of any larger kind which includes them;  but some of them may, with a little forcing, be placed among ornaments, and others may be made to harmonize with the class of implements.  The art of herding, which has been already divided into parts, will include all property in tame animals, except slaves. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τὸ δὲ δὴ δούλων καὶ πάντων ὑπηρετῶν λοιπόν, ἐν οἷς που καὶ μαντεύομαι τοὺς περὶ αὐτὸ τὸ πλέγμα ἀμφισβητοῦντας τῷ βασιλεῖ καταφανεῖς γενήσεσθαι, καθάπερ τοῖς ὑφάνταις τότε τοὺς περὶ τὸ νήθειν τε καὶ ξαίνειν καὶ ὅσα ἄλλα εἴπομεν. 
οἱ δὲ ἄλλοι πάντες, ὡς συναίτιοι λεχθέντες, ἅμα τοῖς ἔργοις τοῖς νυνδὴ ῥηθεῖσιν ἀνήλωνται καὶ ἀπεχωρίσθησαν (289d) ἀπὸ βασιλικῆς τε καὶ πολιτικῆς πράξεως. 
STRANGER:
The class of slaves and ministers only remains, and I suspect that in this the real aspirants for the throne, who are the rivals of the king in the formation of the political web, will be discovered; just as spinners, carders, and the rest of them, were the rivals of the weaver. 
All the others, who were termed co-operators, have been got rid of among the occupations already mentioned, and separated from the royal and political science. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἐοίκασι γοῦν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I agree. 
Ξένος
ἴθι δὴ σκεψώμεθα τοὺς λοιποὺς προσελθόντες ἐγγύθεν, ἵνα αὐτοὺς εἰδῶμεν βεβαιότερον. 
STRANGER:
Let us go a little nearer, in order that we may be more certain of the complexion of this remaining class. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν χρή. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Let us do so. 
Ξένος
τοὺς μὲν δὴ μεγίστους ὑπηρέτας, ὡς ἐνθένδε ἰδεῖν, τοὐναντίον ἔχοντας εὑρίσκομεν οἷς ὑπωπτεύσαμεν ἐπιτήδευμα καὶ πάθος. 
STRANGER:
We shall find from our present point of view that the greatest servants are in a case and condition which is the reverse of what we anticipated. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Who are they? 
Ξένος
τοὺς ὠνητούς τε καὶ τῷ τρόπῳ τούτῳ κτητούς: οὓς (289e) ἀναμφισβητήτως δούλους ἔχομεν εἰπεῖν; ἥκιστα βασιλικῆς μεταποιουμένους τέχνης. 
STRANGER:
Those who have been purchased, and have so become possessions; these are unmistakably slaves, and certainly do not claim royal science. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; τῶν ἐλευθέρων ὅσοι τοῖς νυνδὴ ῥηθεῖσιν εἰς ὑπηρετικὴν ἑκόντες αὑτοὺς τάττουσι, τά τε γεωργίας καὶ τὰ τῶν ἄλλων τεχνῶν ἔργα διακομίζοντες ἐπ᾽ ἀλλήλους καὶ ἀνισοῦντες, οἱ μὲν κατ᾽ ἀγοράς, οἱ δὲ πόλιν ἐκ πόλεως ἀλλάττοντες κατὰ θάλατταν καὶ πεζῇ, νόμισμά τε πρὸς τὰ ἄλλα καὶ αὐτὸ πρὸς αὑτὸ διαμείβοντες, οὓς ἀργυραμοιβούς τε (290a) καὶ ἐμπόρους καὶ ναυκλήρους καὶ καπήλους ἐπωνομάκαμεν, μῶν τῆς πολιτικῆς ἀμφισβητήσουσί τι; 
STRANGER:
Again, freemen who of their own accord become the servants of the other classes in a State, and who exchange and equalise the products of husbandry and the other arts, some sitting in the market-place, others going from city to city by land or sea, and giving money in exchange for money or for other productions--the money-changer, the merchant, the ship-owner, the retailer, will not put in any claim to statecraft or politics? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τάχ᾽ ἂν ἴσως τῆς γε τῶν ἐμπορευτικῶν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
No; unless, indeed, to the politics of commerce. 
Ξένος
ἀλλ᾽ οὐ μὴν οὕς γε ὁρῶμεν μισθωτοὺς καὶ θῆτας πᾶσιν ἑτοιμότατα ὑπηρετοῦντας, μή ποτε βασιλικῆς μεταποιουμένους εὕρωμεν. 
STRANGER:
But surely men whom we see acting as hirelings and serfs, and too happy to turn their hand to anything, will not profess to share in royal science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γάρ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly not. 
Ξένος
τί δὲ ἄρα τοὺς τὰ τοιάδε διακονοῦντας ἡμῖν ἑκάστοτε; 
STRANGER:
But what would you say of some other serviceable officials? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὰ ποῖα εἶπες καὶ τίνας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Who are they, and what services do they perform? 
(290b) Ξένος
ὧν τὸ κηρυκικὸν ἔθνος, ὅσοι τε περὶ γράμματα σοφοὶ γίγνονται πολλάκις ὑπηρετήσαντες, καὶ πόλλ᾽ ἄττα ἕτερα περὶ τὰς ἀρχὰς διαπονεῖσθαί τινες ἕτεροι πάνδεινοι, τί τούτους αὖ λέξομεν; 
STRANGER:
There are heralds, and scribes perfected by practice, and divers others who have great skill in various sorts of business connected with the government of states--what shall we call them? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὅπερ εἶπες νῦν, ὑπηρέτας, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ αὐτοὺς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν ἄρχοντας. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
They are the officials, and servants of the rulers, as you just now called them, but not themselves rulers. 
Ξένος
ἀλλὰ οὐ μὴν οἶμαί γε ἐνύπνιον ἰδὼν εἶπον ταύτῃ πῃ φανήσεσθαι τοὺς διαφερόντως ἀμφισβητοῦντας τῆς πολιτικῆς. καίτοι σφόδρα γε ἄτοπον ἂν εἶναι δόξειε τὸ ζητεῖν (290c) τούτους ἐν ὑπηρετικῇ μοίρᾳ τινί. 
STRANGER:
There may be something strange in any servant pretending to be a ruler, and yet I do not think that I could have been dreaming when I imagined that the principal claimants to political science would be found somewhere in this neighbourhood. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
ἔτι δὴ προσμείξωμεν ἐγγύτερον ἐπὶ τοὺς μήπω βεβασανισμένους. εἰσὶ δὲ οἵ τε περὶ μαντικὴν ἔχοντές τινος ἐπιστήμης διακόνου μόριον: ἑρμηνευταὶ γάρ που νομίζονται παρὰ θεῶν ἀνθρώποις. 
STRANGER:
Well, let us draw nearer, and try the claims of some who have not yet been tested: in the first place, there are diviners, who have a portion of servile or ministerial science, and are thought to be the interpreters of the gods to men. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν καὶ τὸ τῶν ἱερέων αὖ γένος, ὡς τὸ νόμιμόν φησι, παρὰ μὲν ἡμῶν δωρεὰς θεοῖς διὰ θυσιῶν ἐπιστῆμόν (290d) ἐστι κατὰ νοῦν ἐκείνοις δωρεῖσθαι, παρὰ δὲ ἐκείνων ἡμῖν εὐχαῖς κτῆσιν ἀγαθῶν αἰτήσασθαι: ταῦτα δὲ διακόνου τέχνης ἐστί που μόρια ἀμφότερα. 
STRANGER:
There is also the priestly class, who, as the law declares, know how to give the gods gifts from men in the form of sacrifices which are acceptable to them, and to ask on our behalf blessings in return from them. Now both these are branches of the servile or ministerial art. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται γοῦν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, clearly. 
Ξένος
ἤδη τοίνυν μοι δοκοῦμεν οἷόν γέ τινος ἴχνους ἐφ᾽ ὃ πορευόμεθα προσάπτεσθαι. 
τὸ γὰρ δὴ τῶν ἱερέων σχῆμα καὶ τὸ τῶν μάντεων εὖ μάλα φρονήματος πληροῦται καὶ δόξαν σεμνὴν λαμβάνει διὰ τὸ μέγεθος τῶν ἐγχειρημάτων, ὥστε περὶ μὲν Αἴγυπτον οὐδ᾽ ἔξεστι βασιλέα χωρὶς ἱερατικῆς (290e) ἄρχειν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐὰν ἄρα καὶ τύχῃ πρότερον ἐξ ἄλλου γένους βιασάμενος, ὕστερον ἀναγκαῖον εἰς τοῦτο εἰστελεῖσθαι αὐτὸν τὸ γένος:  ἔτι δὲ καὶ τῶν Ἑλλήνων πολλαχοῦ ταῖς μεγίσταις ἀρχαῖς τὰ μέγιστα τῶν περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα θύματα εὕροι τις ἂν προσταττόμενα θύειν.  καὶ δὴ καὶ παρ᾽ ὑμῖν οὐχ ἥκιστα δῆλον ὃ λέγω: τῷ γὰρ λαχόντι βασιλεῖ φασιν τῇδε τὰ σεμνότατα καὶ μάλιστα πάτρια τῶν ἀρχαίων θυσιῶν ἀποδεδόσθαι. 
STRANGER:
And here I think that we seem to be getting on the right track; 
for the priest and the diviner are swollen with pride and prerogative, and they create an awful impression of themselves by the magnitude of their enterprises; in Egypt, the king himself is not allowed to reign, unless he have priestly powers, and if he should be of another class and has thrust himself in, he must get enrolled in the priesthood.  In many parts of Hellas, the duty of offering the most solemn propitiatory sacrifices is assigned to the highest magistracies,  and here, at Athens, the most solemn and national of the ancient sacrifices are supposed to be celebrated by him who has been chosen by lot to be the King Archon. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Precisely. 
(291a) Ξένος
τούτους τε τοίνυν τοὺς κληρωτοὺς βασιλέας ἅμα καὶ ἱερέας, καὶ ὑπηρέτας αὐτῶν καί τινα ἕτερον πάμπολυν ὄχλον σκεπτέον, ὃς ἄρτι κατάδηλος νῦν ἡμῖν γέγονεν ἀποχωρισθέντων τῶν ἔμπροσθεν. 
STRANGER:
But who are these other kings and priests elected by lot who now come into view followed by their retainers and a vast throng, as the former class disappears and the scene changes? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνας δ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Whom can you mean? 
Ξένος
καὶ μάλα τινὰς ἀτόπους. 
STRANGER:
They are a strange crew. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why strange? 
Ξένος
πάμφυλόν τι γένος αὐτῶν, ὥς γε ἄρτι σκοπουμένῳ φαίνεται. 
πολλοὶ μὲν γὰρ λέουσι τῶν ἀνδρῶν εἴξασι καὶ Κενταύροις (291b) καὶ τοιούτοισιν ἑτέροις, πάμπολλοι δὲ Σατύροις καὶ τοῖς ἀσθενέσι καὶ πολυτρόποις θηρίοις: ταχὺ δὲ μεταλλάττουσι τάς τε ἰδέας καὶ τὴν δύναμιν εἰς ἀλλήλους.  καὶ μέντοι μοι νῦν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἄρτι δοκῶ κατανενοηκέναι τοὺς ἄνδρας. 
STRANGER:
A minute ago I thought that they were animals of every tribe; 
for many of them are like lions and centaurs, and many more like satyrs and such weak and shifty creatures;--Protean shapes quickly changing into one another's forms and natures;  and now, Socrates, I begin to see who they are. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγοις ἄν: ἔοικας γὰρ ἄτοπόν τι καθορᾶν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Who are they? You seem to be gazing on some strange vision. 
Ξένος
ναί: τὸ γὰρ ἄτοπον ἐξ ἀγνοίας πᾶσι συμβαίνει. καὶ γὰρ δὴ καὶ νῦν αὐτὸς τοῦτ᾽ ἔπαθον: ἐξαίφνης ἠμφεγνόησα (291c) κατιδὼν τὸν περὶ τὰ τῶν πόλεων πράγματα χορόν. 
STRANGER:
Yes; every one looks strange when you do not know him; and just now I myself fell into this mistake--at first sight, coming suddenly upon him, I did not recognize the politician and his troop. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Who is he? 
Ξένος
τὸν πάντων τῶν σοφιστῶν μέγιστον γόητα καὶ ταύτης τῆς τέχνης ἐμπειρότατον: ὃν ἀπὸ τῶν ὄντως ὄντων πολιτικῶν καὶ βασιλικῶν καίπερ παγχάλεπον ὄντα ἀφαιρεῖν ἀφαιρετέον, εἰ μέλλομεν ἰδεῖν ἐναργῶς τὸ ζητούμενον. 
STRANGER:
The chief of Sophists and most accomplished of wizards, who must at any cost be separated from the true king or Statesman, if we are ever to see daylight in the present enquiry. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτό γε οὐκ ἀνετέον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is a hope not lightly to be renounced. 
Ξένος
οὔκουν δὴ κατά γε τὴν ἐμήν. καί μοι φράζε τόδε. 
STRANGER:
Never, if I can help it; and, first, let me ask you a question. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What? 
(291d) Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὐ μοναρχία τῶν πολιτικῶν ἡμῖν ἀρχῶν ἐστι μία; 
STRANGER:
Is not monarchy a recognized form of government? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
καὶ μετὰ μοναρχίαν εἴποι τις ἂν οἶμαι τὴν ὑπὸ τῶν ὀλίγων δυναστείαν. 
STRANGER:
And, after monarchy, next in order comes the government of the few? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Of course. 
Ξένος
τρίτον δὲ σχῆμα πολιτείας οὐχ ἡ τοῦ πλήθους ἀρχή, δημοκρατία τοὔνομα κληθεῖσα; 
STRANGER:
Is not the third form of government the rule of the multitude, which is called by the name of democracy? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τρεῖς δ᾽ οὖσαι μῶν οὐ πέντε τρόπον τινὰ γίγνονται, δύ᾽ ἐξ ἑαυτῶν ἄλλα πρὸς αὑταῖς ὀνόματα τίκτουσαι; 
STRANGER:
And do not these three expand in a manner into five, producing out of themselves two other names? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖα δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What are they? 
(291e) Ξένος
πρὸς τὸ βίαιόν που καὶ ἑκούσιον ἀποσκοποῦντες νῦν καὶ πενίαν καὶ πλοῦτον καὶ νόμον καὶ ἀνομίαν ἐν αὐταῖς γιγνόμενα διπλῆν ἑκατέραν τοῖν δυοῖν διαιροῦντες μοναρχίαν μὲν προσαγορεύουσιν ὡς δύο παρεχομένην εἴδη δυοῖν ὀνόμασι, τυραννίδι, τὸ δὲ βασιλικῇ. 
STRANGER:
There is a criterion of voluntary and involuntary, poverty and riches, law and the absence of law, which men now-a-days apply to them; the two first they subdivide accordingly, and ascribe to monarchy two forms and two corresponding names, royalty and tyranny. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τὴν δὲ ὑπ᾽ ὀλίγων γε ἑκάστοτε κρατηθεῖσαν πόλιν ἀριστοκρατίᾳ καὶ ὀλιγαρχίᾳ. 
STRANGER:
And the government of the few they distinguish by the names of aristocracy and oligarchy. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
δημοκρατίας γε μήν, ἐάντ᾽ οὖν βιαίως ἐάντε ἑκουσίως (292a) τῶν τὰς οὐσίας ἐχόντων τὸ πλῆθος ἄρχῃ, καὶ ἐάντε τοὺς νόμους ἀκριβῶς φυλάττον ἐάντε μή, πάντως τοὔνομα οὐδεὶς αὐτῆς εἴωθε μεταλλάττειν. 
STRANGER:
Democracy alone, whether rigidly observing the laws or not, and whether the multitude rule over the men of property with their consent or against their consent, always in ordinary language has the same name. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τί οὖν; οἰόμεθά τινα τούτων τῶν πολιτειῶν ὀρθὴν εἶναι τούτοις τοῖς ὅροις ὁρισθεῖσαν, ἑνὶ καὶ ὀλίγοις καὶ πολλοῖς, καὶ πλούτῳ καὶ πενίᾳ, καὶ τῷ βιαίῳ καὶ ἑκουσίῳ, καὶ μετὰ γραμμάτων καὶ ἄνευ νόμων συμβαίνουσαν γίγνεσθαι; 
STRANGER:
But do you suppose that any form of government which is defined by these characteristics of the one, the few, or the many, of poverty or wealth, of voluntary or compulsory submission, of written law or the absence of law, can be a right one? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί γὰρ δὴ καὶ κωλύει; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why not? 
(292b) Ξένος
σκόπει δὴ σαφέστερον τῇδε ἑπόμενος. 
STRANGER:
Reflect; and follow me. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῇ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
In what direction? 
Ξένος
τῷ ῥηθέντι κατὰ πρώτας πότερον ἐμμενοῦμεν ἢ διαφωνήσομεν; 
STRANGER:
Shall we abide by what we said at first, or shall we retract our words? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τῷ δὴ ποίῳ λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To what do you refer? 
Ξένος
τὴν βασιλικὴν ἀρχὴν τῶν ἐπιστημῶν εἶναί τινα ἔφαμεν, οἶμαι. 
STRANGER:
If I am not mistaken, we said that royal power was a science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
καὶ τούτων γε οὐχ ἁπασῶν, ἀλλὰ κριτικὴν δήπου τινὰ καὶ ἐπιστατικὴν ἐκ τῶν ἄλλων προειλόμεθα. 
STRANGER:
And a science of a peculiar kind, which was selected out of the rest as having a character which is at once judicial and authoritative? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
κἀκ τῆς ἐπιστατικῆς τὴν μὲν ἐπ᾽ ἀψύχοις ἔργοις, (292c) τὴν δ᾽ ἐπὶ ζῴοις: καὶ κατὰ τοῦτον δὴ τὸν τρόπον μερίζοντες δεῦρ᾽ ἀεὶ προεληλύθαμεν, ἐπιστήμης οὐκ ἐπιλανθανόμενοι, τὸ δ᾽ ἥτις οὐχ ἱκανῶς πω δυνάμενοι διακριβώσασθαι. 
STRANGER:
And there was one kind of authority over lifeless things and another other living animals; and so we proceeded in the division step by step up to this point, not losing the idea of science, but unable as yet to determine the nature of the particular science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγεις ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τοῦτ᾽ αὐτὸ τοίνυν ἆρ᾽ ἐννοοῦμεν, ὅτι τὸν ὅρον οὐκ ὀλίγους οὐδὲ πολλούς, οὐδὲ τὸ ἑκούσιον οὐδὲ τὸ ἀκούσιον, οὐδὲ πενίαν οὐδὲ πλοῦτον γίγνεσθαι περὶ αὐτῶν χρεών, ἀλλά τινα ἐπιστήμην, εἴπερ ἀκολουθήσομεν τοῖς πρόσθεν; (292d) 
STRANGER:
Hence we are led to observe that the distinguishing principle of the State cannot be the few or many, the voluntary or involuntary, poverty or riches; but some notion of science must enter into it, if we are to be consistent with what has preceded. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτό γε ἀδύνατον μὴ ποιεῖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
And we must be consistent. 
Ξένος
ἐξ ἀνάγκης δὴ νῦν τοῦτο οὕτω σκεπτέον, ἐν τίνι ποτὲ τούτων ἐπιστήμη συμβαίνει γίγνεσθαι περὶ ἀνθρώπων ἀρχῆς, σχεδὸν τῆς χαλεπωτάτης καὶ μεγίστης κτήσασθαι. 
δεῖ γὰρ ἰδεῖν αὐτήν, ἵνα θεασώμεθα τίνας ἀφαιρετέον ἀπὸ τοῦ φρονίμου βασιλέως, οἳ προσποιοῦνται μὲν εἶναι πολιτικοὶ καὶ πείθουσι πολλούς, εἰσὶ δὲ οὐδαμῶς. 
STRANGER:
Well, then, in which of these various forms of States may the science of government, which is among the greatest of all sciences and most difficult to acquire, be supposed to reside? 
That we must discover, and then we shall see who are the false politicians who pretend to be politicians but are not, although they persuade many, and shall separate them from the wise king. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δεῖ γὰρ δὴ ποιεῖν τοῦτο, ὡς ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν προείρηκεν. (292e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That, as the argument has already intimated, will be our duty. 
Ξένος
μῶν οὖν δοκεῖ πλῆθός γε ἐν πόλει ταύτην τὴν ἐπιστήμην δυνατὸν εἶναι κτήσασθαι; 
STRANGER:
Do you think that the multitude in a State can attain political science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Impossible. 
Ξένος
ἀλλ᾽ ἆρα ἐν χιλιάνδρῳ πόλει δυνατὸν ἑκατόν τινας ἢ καὶ πεντήκοντα αὐτὴν ἱκανῶς κτήσασθαι; 
STRANGER:
But, perhaps, in a city of a thousand men, there would be a hundred, or say fifty, who could? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ῥᾴστη μεντἂν οὕτω γ᾽ εἴη πασῶν τῶν τεχνῶν: ἴσμεν γὰρ ὅτι χιλίων ἀνδρῶν ἄκροι πεττευταὶ τοσοῦτοι πρὸς τοὺς ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις Ἕλλησιν οὐκ ἂν γένοιντό ποτε, μή τι δὴ βασιλῆς γε. 
δεῖ γὰρ δὴ τόν γε τὴν βασιλικὴν ἔχοντα ἐπιστήμην, ἄν τ᾽ ἄρχῃ καὶ ἐὰν μή, κατὰ τὸν ἔμπροσθε (293a) λόγον ὅμως βασιλικὸν προσαγορεύεσθαι. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
In that case political science would certainly be the easiest of all sciences; there could not be found in a city of that number as many really first-rate draught-players, if judged by the standard of the rest of Hellas, and there would certainly not be as many kings. 
For kings we may truly call those who possess royal science, whether they rule or not, as was shown in the previous argument. 
Ξένος
καλῶς ἀπεμνημόνευσας. ἑπόμενον δὲ οἶμαι τούτῳ τὴν μὲν ὀρθὴν ἀρχὴν περὶ ἕνα τινὰ καὶ δύο καὶ παντάπασιν ὀλίγους δεῖ ζητεῖν, ὅταν ὀρθὴ γίγνηται. 
STRANGER:
Thank you for reminding me; and the consequence is that any true form of government can only be supposed to be the government of one, two, or, at any rate, of a few. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τούτους δέ γε, ἐάντε ἑκόντων ἄντ᾽ ἀκόντων ἄρχωσιν, ἐάντε κατὰ γράμματα ἐάντε ἄνευ γραμμάτων, καὶ ἐὰν πλουτοῦντες ἢ πενόμενοι, νομιστέον, ὥσπερ νῦν ἡγούμεθα, κατὰ τέχνην ἡντινοῦν ἀρχὴν ἄρχοντας. 
τοὺς ἰατροὺς (293b) δὲ οὐχ ἥκιστα νενομίκαμεν, ἐάντε ἑκόντας ἐάντε ἄκοντας ἡμᾶς ἰῶνται, τέμνοντες ἢ κάοντες ἤ τινα ἄλλην ἀλγηδόνα προσάπτοντες, καὶ ἐὰν κατὰ γράμματα ἢ χωρὶς γραμμάτων, καὶ ἐὰν πένητες ὄντες ἢ πλούσιοι, πάντως οὐδὲν ἧττον ἰατρούς φαμεν, ἕωσπερ ἂν ἐπιστατοῦντες τέχνῃ, καθαίροντες εἴτε ἄλλως ἰσχναίνοντες εἴτε καὶ αὐξάνοντες, ἂν μόνον ἐπ᾽ ἀγαθῷ τῷ τῶν σωμάτων, βελτίω ποιοῦντες ἐκ χειρόνων, (293c) σῴζωσιν οἱ θεραπεύοντες ἕκαστοι τὰ θεραπευόμενα:  ταύτῃ θήσομεν, ὡς οἶμαι, καὶ οὐκ ἄλλῃ, τοῦτον ὅρον ὀρθὸν εἶναι μόνον ἰατρικῆς καὶ ἄλλης ἡστινοσοῦν ἀρχῆς. 
STRANGER:
And these, whether they rule with the will, or against the will, of their subjects, with written laws or without written laws, and whether they are poor or rich, and whatever be the nature of their rule, must be supposed, according to our present view, to rule on some scientific principle; 
just as the physician, whether he cures us against our will or with our will, and whatever be his mode of treatment,--incision, burning, or the infliction of some other pain,--whether he practises out of a book or not out of a book, and whether he be rich or poor, whether he purges or reduces in some other way, or even fattens his patients, is a physician all the same, so long as he exercises authority over them according to rules of art, if he only does them good and heals and saves them.  And this we lay down to be the only proper test of the art of medicine, or of any other art of command. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
ἀναγκαῖον δὴ καὶ πολιτειῶν, ὡς ἔοικε, ταύτην ὀρθὴν διαφερόντως εἶναι καὶ μόνην πολιτείαν, ἐν ᾗ τις ἂν εὑρίσκοι τοὺς ἄρχοντας ἀληθῶς ἐπιστήμονας καὶ οὐ δοκοῦντας μόνον, ἐάντε κατὰ νόμους ἐάντε ἄνευ νόμων ἄρχωσι, καὶ ἑκόντων ἢ (293d) ἀκόντων, καὶ πενόμενοι ἢ πλουτοῦντες, τούτων ὑπολογιστέον οὐδὲν οὐδαμῶς εἶναι κατ᾽ οὐδεμίαν ὀρθότητα. 
STRANGER:
Then that can be the only true form of government in which the governors are really found to possess science, and are not mere pretenders, whether they rule according to law or without law, over willing or unwilling subjects, and are rich or poor themselves--none of these things can with any propriety be included in the notion of the ruler. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
καὶ ἐάντε γε ἀποκτεινύντες τινὰς ἢ καὶ ἐκβάλλοντες καθαίρωσιν ἐπ᾽ ἀγαθῷ τὴν πόλιν, εἴτε καὶ ἀποικίας οἷον σμήνη μελιττῶν ἐκπέμποντές ποι σμικροτέραν ποιῶσιν, ἤ τινας ἐπεισαγόμενοί ποθεν ἄλλους ἔξωθεν πολίτας ποιοῦντες αὐτὴν αὔξωσιν, ἕωσπερ ἂν ἐπιστήμῃ καὶ τῷ δικαίῳ προσχρώμενοι σῴζοντες ἐκ χείρονος βελτίω ποιῶσι κατὰ δύναμιν, (293e) ταύτην τότε καὶ κατὰ τοὺς τοιούτους ὅρους ἡμῖν μόνην ὀρθὴν πολιτείαν εἶναι ῥητέον: ὅσας δ᾽ ἄλλας λέγομεν, οὐ γνησίας οὐδ᾽ ὄντως οὔσας λεκτέον, ἀλλὰ μεμιμημένας ταύτην, ἃς μὲν ὡς εὐνόμους λέγομεν, ἐπὶ τὰ καλλίω, τὰς δὲ ἄλλας ἐπὶ τὰ αἰσχίονα μεμιμῆσθαι. 
STRANGER:
And whether with a view to the public good they purge the State by killing some, or exiling some; whether they reduce the size of the body corporate by sending out from the hive swarms of citizens, or, by introducing persons from without, increase it; while they act according to the rules of wisdom and justice, and use their power with a view to the general security and improvement, the city over which they rule, and which has these characteristics, may be described as the only true State. All other governments are not genuine or real; but only imitations of this, and some of them are better and some of them are worse; the better are said to be well governed, but they are mere imitations like the others. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὰ μὲν ἄλλα, ὦ ξένε, μετρίως ἔοικεν εἰρῆσθαι: τὸ δὲ καὶ ἄνευ νόμων δεῖν ἄρχειν χαλεπώτερον ἀκούειν ἐρρήθη. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I agree, Stranger, in the greater part of what you say; but as to their ruling without laws--the expression has a harsh sound. 
Ξένος
μικρόν γε ἔφθης με ἐρόμενος, ὦ Σώκρατες. ἔμελλον (294a) γάρ σε διερωτήσειν ταῦτα πότερον ἀποδέχῃ πάντα, ἤ τι καὶ δυσχεραίνεις τῶν λεχθέντων: νῦν δ᾽ ἤδη φανερὸν ὅτι τοῦτο βουλησόμεθα τὸ περὶ τῆς τῶν ἄνευ νόμων ἀρχόντων ὀρθότητος διελθεῖν ἡμᾶς. 
STRANGER:
You have been too quick for me, Socrates; I was just going to ask you whether you objected to any of my statements. And now I see that we shall have to consider this notion of there being good government without laws. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τρόπον τινὰ μέντοι δῆλον ὅτι τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐστιν ἡ νομοθετική: τὸ δ᾽ ἄριστον οὐ τοὺς νόμους ἐστὶν ἰσχύειν ἀλλ᾽ ἄνδρα τὸν μετὰ φρονήσεως βασιλικόν. οἶσθ᾽ ὅπῃ; 
STRANGER:
There can be no doubt that legislation is in a manner the business of a king, and yet the best thing of all is not that the law should rule, but that a man should rule supposing him to have wisdom and royal power. Do you see why this is? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῇ δὴ λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why? 
Ξένος
ὅτι νόμος οὐκ ἄν ποτε δύναιτο τό τε ἄριστον καὶ (294b) τὸ δικαιότατον ἀκριβῶς πᾶσιν ἅμα περιλαβὼν τὸ βέλτιστον ἐπιτάττειν: αἱ γὰρ ἀνομοιότητες τῶν τε ἀνθρώπων καὶ τῶν πράξεων καὶ τὸ μηδέποτε μηδὲν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν ἡσυχίαν ἄγειν τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων οὐδὲν ἐῶσιν ἁπλοῦν ἐν οὐδενὶ περὶ ἁπάντων καὶ ἐπὶ πάντα τὸν χρόνον ἀποφαίνεσθαι τέχνην οὐδ᾽ ἡντινοῦν. ταῦτα δὴ συγχωροῦμέν που; 
STRANGER:
Because the law does not perfectly comprehend what is noblest and most just for all and therefore cannot enforce what is best. The differences of men and actions, and the endless irregular movements of human things, do not admit of any universal and simple rule. And no art whatsoever can lay down a rule which will last for all time. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Of course not. 
Ξένος
τὸν δέ γε νόμον ὁρῶμεν σχεδὸν ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸ τοῦτο (294c) συντείνοντα, ὥσπερ τινὰ ἄνθρωπον αὐθάδη καὶ ἀμαθῆ καὶ μηδένα μηδὲν ἐῶντα ποιεῖν παρὰ τὴν ἑαυτοῦ τάξιν, μηδ᾽ ἐπερωτᾶν μηδένα, μηδ᾽ ἄν τι νέον ἄρα τῳ συμβαίνῃ βέλτιον παρὰ τὸν λόγον ὃν αὐτὸς ἐπέταξεν. 
STRANGER:
But the law is always striving to make one;--like an obstinate and ignorant tyrant, who will not allow anything to be done contrary to his appointment, or any question to be asked--not even in sudden changes of circumstances, when something happens to be better than what he commanded for some one. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ: ποιεῖ γὰρ ἀτεχνῶς καθάπερ εἴρηκας νῦν ὁ νόμος ἡμῖν ἑκάστοις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly; the law treats us all precisely in the manner which you describe. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἀδύνατον εὖ ἔχειν πρὸς τὰ μηδέποτε ἁπλᾶ τὸ διὰ παντὸς γιγνόμενον ἁπλοῦν; 
STRANGER:
A perfectly simple principle can never be applied to a state of things which is the reverse of simple. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύει. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
διὰ τί δή ποτ᾽ οὖν ἀναγκαῖον νομοθετεῖν, ἐπειδήπερ (294d) οὐκ ὀρθότατον ὁ νόμος; ἀνευρετέον τούτου τὴν αἰτίαν. 
STRANGER:
Then if the law is not the perfection of right, why are we compelled to make laws at all? The reason of this has next to be investigated. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν καὶ παρ᾽ ὑμῖν εἰσί τινες οἷαι καὶ ἐν ἄλλαις πόλεσιν ἁθρόων ἀνθρώπων ἀσκήσεις, εἴτε πρὸς δρόμον εἴτε πρὸς ἄλλο τι, φιλονικίας ἕνεκα; 
STRANGER:
Let me ask, whether you have not meetings for gymnastic contests in your city, such as there are in other cities, at which men compete in running, wrestling, and the like? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ πάνυ γε πολλαί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes; they are very common among us. 
Ξένος
φέρε νῦν ἀναλάβωμεν πάλιν μνήμῃ τὰς τῶν τέχνῃ γυμναζόντων ἐπιτάξεις ἐν ταῖς τοιαύταις ἀρχαῖς. 
STRANGER:
And what are the rules which are enforced on their pupils by professional trainers or by others having similar authority? Can you remember? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To what do you refer? 
Ξένος
ὅτι λεπτουργεῖν οὐκ ἐγχωρεῖν ἡγοῦνται καθ᾽ ἕνα ἕκαστον, τῷ σώματι τὸ προσῆκον ἑκάστῳ προστάττοντες, (294e) ἀλλὰ παχύτερον οἴονται δεῖν ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ καὶ ἐπὶ πολλοὺς τὴν τοῦ λυσιτελοῦντος τοῖς σώμασι ποιεῖσθαι τάξιν. 
STRANGER:
The training-masters do not issue minute rules for individuals, or give every individual what is exactly suited to his constitution; they think that they ought to go more roughly to work, and to prescribe generally the regimen which will benefit the majority. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καλῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
διὸ δή γε καὶ ἴσους πόνους νῦν διδόντες ἁθρόοις ἅμα μὲν ἐξορμῶσιν, ἅμα δὲ καὶ καταπαύουσι δρόμου καὶ πάλης καὶ πάντων τῶν κατὰ τὰ σώματα πόνων. 
STRANGER:
And therefore they assign equal amounts of exercise to them all; they send them forth together, and let them rest together from their running, wrestling, or whatever the form of bodily exercise may be. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστι ταῦτα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
καὶ τὸν νομοθέτην τοίνυν ἡγώμεθα, τὸν ταῖσιν ἀγέλαις ἐπιστατήσοντα τοῦ δικαίου πέρι καὶ τῶν πρὸς ἀλλήλους (295a) συμβολαίων, μή ποθ᾽ ἱκανὸν γενήσεσθαι πᾶσιν ἁθρόοις προστάττοντα ἀκριβῶς ἑνὶ ἑκάστῳ τὸ προσῆκον ἀποδιδόναι. 
STRANGER:
And now observe that the legislator who has to preside over the herd, and to enforce justice in their dealings with one another, will not be able, in enacting for the general good, to provide exactly what is suitable for each particular case. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ γοῦν εἰκός. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
He cannot be expected to do so. 
Ξένος
ἀλλὰ τὸ τοῖς πολλοῖς γε οἶμαι καὶ ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ καί πως οὑτωσὶ παχυτέρως ἑκάστοις τὸν νόμον θήσει, καὶ ἐν γράμμασιν ἀποδιδοὺς καὶ ἐν ἀγραμμάτοις, πατρίοις δὲ ἔθεσι νομοθετῶν. 
STRANGER:
He will lay down laws in a general form for the majority, roughly meeting the cases of individuals; and some of them he will deliver in writing, and others will be unwritten; and these last will be traditional customs of the country. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
He will be right. 
Ξένος
ὀρθῶς μέντοι. πῶς γὰρ ἄν τις ἱκανὸς γένοιτ᾽ ἄν (295b) ποτε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὥστε διὰ βίου ἀεὶ παρακαθήμενος ἑκάστῳ δι᾽ ἀκριβείας προστάττειν τὸ προσῆκον; ἐπεὶ τοῦτ᾽ ἂν δυνατὸς ὤν, ὡς οἶμαι, τῶν τὴν βασιλικὴν ὁστισοῦν ὄντως ἐπιστήμην εἰληφότων σχολῇ ποτ᾽ ἂν ἑαυτῷ θεῖτ᾽ ἐμποδίσματα γράφων τοὺς λεχθέντας τούτους νόμους. 
STRANGER:
Yes, quite right; for how can he sit at every man's side all through his life, prescribing for him the exact particulars of his duty? Who, Socrates, would be equal to such a task? No one who really had the royal science, if he had been able to do this, would have imposed upon himself the restriction of a written law. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἐκ τῶν νῦν γοῦν, ὦ ξένε, εἰρημένων. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
So I should infer from what has now been said. 
Ξένος
μᾶλλον δέ γε, ὦ βέλτιστε, ἐκ τῶν μελλόντων ῥηθήσεσθαι. 
STRANGER:
Or rather, my good friend, from what is going to be said. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τίνων δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
And what is that? 
Ξένος
τῶν τοιῶνδε. εἴπωμεν γὰρ δὴ πρός γε ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς (295c) ἰατρὸν μέλλοντα ἢ καί τινα γυμναστικὸν ἀποδημεῖν καὶ ἀπέσεσθαι τῶν θεραπευομένων συχνόν, ὡς οἴοιτο, χρόνον, μὴ μνημονεύσειν οἰηθέντα τὰ προσταχθέντα τοὺς γυμναζομένους ἢ τοὺς κάμνοντας, ὑπομνήματα γράφειν ἂν ἐθέλειν αὐτοῖς, ἢ πῶς; 
STRANGER:
Let us put to ourselves the case of a physician, or trainer, who is about to go into a far country, and is expecting to be a long time away from his patients--thinking that his instructions will not be remembered unless they are written down, he will leave notes of them for the use of his pupils or patients. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽ εἰ παρὰ δόξαν ἐλάττω χρόνον ἀποδημήσας ἔλθοι πάλιν; ἆρ᾽ οὐκ ἂν παρ᾽ ἐκεῖνα τὰ γράμματα τολμήσειεν ἄλλ᾽ ὑποθέσθαι, συμβαινόντων ἄλλων βελτιόνων τοῖς κάμνουσι (295d) διὰ πνεύματα ἤ τι καὶ ἄλλο παρὰ τὴν ἐλπίδα τῶν ἐκ Διὸς ἑτέρως πως τῶν εἰωθότων γενόμενα, καρτερῶν δ᾽ ἂν ἡγοῖτο δεῖν μὴ ἐκβαίνειν τἀρχαῖά ποτε νομοθετηθέντα μήτε αὐτὸν προστάττοντα ἄλλα μήτε τὸν κάμνοντα ἕτερα τολμῶντα παρὰ τὰ γραφέντα δρᾶν, ὡς ταῦτα ὄντα ἰατρικὰ καὶ ὑγιεινά, τὰ δὲ ἑτέρως γιγνόμενα νοσώδη τε καὶ οὐκ ἔντεχνα: ἢ πᾶν τὸ τοιοῦτον ἔν γε ἐπιστήμῃ συμβαῖνον καὶ (295e) ἀληθεῖ τέχνῃ περὶ ἅπαντα παντάπασι γέλως ἂν ὁ μέγιστος γίγνοιτο τῶν τοιούτων νομοθετημάτων; 
STRANGER:
But what would you say, if he came back sooner than he had intended, and, owing to an unexpected change of the winds or other celestial influences, something else happened to be better for them,--would he not venture to suggest this new remedy, although not contemplated in his former prescription? Would he persist in observing the original law, neither himself giving any new commandments, nor the patient daring to do otherwise than was prescribed, under the idea that this course only was healthy and medicinal, all others noxious and heterodox? Viewed in the light of science and true art, would not all such enactments be utterly ridiculous? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Utterly. 
Ξένος
τῷ δὲ τὰ δίκαια δὴ καὶ ἄδικα καὶ καλὰ καὶ αἰσχρὰ καὶ ἀγαθὰ καὶ κακὰ γράψαντι καὶ ἄγραφα νομοθετήσαντι ταῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀγέλαις, ὁπόσαι κατὰ πόλιν ἐν ἑκάσταις νομεύονται κατὰ τοὺς τῶν γραψάντων νόμους, ἂν ὁ μετὰ τέχνης γράψας ἤ τις ἕτερος ὅμοιος ἀφίκηται, μὴ ἐξέστω δὴ (296a) παρὰ ταῦτα ἕτερα προστάττειν; ἢ καὶ τοῦτο τὸ ἀπόρρημα οὐδὲν ἧττον ἂν ἐκείνου τῇ ἀληθείᾳ γελοῖον φαίνοιτο; 
STRANGER:
And if he who gave laws, written or unwritten, determining what was good or bad, honourable or dishonourable, just or unjust, to the tribes of men who flock together in their several cities, and are governed in accordance with them; if, I say, the wise legislator were suddenly to come again, or another like to him, is he to be prohibited from changing them?--would not this prohibition be in reality quite as ridiculous as the other? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
οἶσθ᾽ οὖν ἐπὶ τῷ τοιούτῳ λόγον τὸν παρὰ τῶν πολλῶν λεγόμενον; 
STRANGER:
Do you know a plausible saying of the common people which is in point? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκ ἐννοῶ νῦν γ᾽ οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I do not recall what you mean at the moment. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν εὐπρεπής. φασὶ γὰρ δὴ δεῖν, εἴ τις γιγνώσκει παρὰ τοὺς τῶν ἔμπροσθεν βελτίους νόμους, νομοθετεῖν τὴν ἑαυτοῦ πόλιν ἕκαστον πείσαντα, ἄλλως δὲ μή. 
STRANGER:
They say that if any one knows how the ancient laws may be improved, he must first persuade his own State of the improvement, and then he may legislate, but not otherwise. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί οὖν; οὐκ ὀρθῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
And are they not right? 
(296b) Ξένος
ἴσως. ἂν δ᾽ οὖν μὴ πείθων τις βιάζηται τὸ βέλτιον, ἀπόκριναι, τί τοὔνομα τῆς βίας ἔσται; μὴ μέντοι πω, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν πρότερον. 
STRANGER:
I dare say. But supposing that he does use some gentle violence for their good, what is this violence to be called? Or rather, before you answer, let me ask the same question in reference to our previous instances. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον δὴ λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
ἄν τις ἄρα μὴ πείθων τὸν ἰατρευόμενον, ἔχων δὲ ὀρθῶς τὴν τέχνην, παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα τὸ βέλτιον ἀναγκάζῃ δρᾶν παῖδα ἤ τινα ἄνδρα ἢ καὶ γυναῖκα, τί τοὔνομα τῆς βίας ἔσται ταύτης; ἆρ᾽ οὐ πᾶν μᾶλλον ἢ τὸ παρὰ τὴν τέχνην λεγόμενον ἁμάρτημα τὸ νοσῶδες; καὶ πάντα ὀρθῶς (296c) εἰπεῖν ἔστι πρότερον τῷ βιασθέντι περὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον πλὴν ὅτι νοσώδη καὶ ἄτεχνα πέπονθεν ὑπὸ τῶν βιασαμένων ἰατρῶν; 
STRANGER:
Suppose that a skilful physician has a patient, of whatever sex or age, whom he compels against his will to do something for his good which is contrary to the written rules; what is this compulsion to be called? Would you ever dream of calling it a violation of the art, or a breach of the laws of health? Nothing could be more unjust than for the patient to whom such violence is applied, to charge the physician who practises the violence with wanting skill or aggravating his disease. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα λέγεις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Most true. 
Ξένος
τί δὲ ἡμῖν δὴ τὸ παρὰ τὴν πολιτικὴν τέχνην ἁμάρτημα λεγόμενόν ἐστιν; ἆρ᾽ οὐ τὸ αἰσχρὸν καὶ τὸ κακὸν καὶ ἄδικον; 
STRANGER:
In the political art error is not called disease, but evil, or disgrace, or injustice. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασί γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
τῶν δὴ βιασθέντων παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια δρᾶν ἕτερα δικαιότερα καὶ ἀμείνω καὶ καλλίω τῶν ἔμπροσθεν, (296d) φέρε, τὸν τῶν τοιούτων αὖ ψόγον περὶ τῆς τοιαύτης βίας, ἆρ᾽, εἰ μέλλει μὴ καταγελαστότατος εἶναι πάντων, πάντ᾽ αὐτῷ μᾶλλον λεκτέον ἑκάστοτε πλὴν ὡς αἰσχρὰ καὶ ἄδικα καὶ κακὰ πεπόνθασιν οἱ βιασθέντες ὑπὸ τῶν βιασαμένων; 
STRANGER:
And when the citizen, contrary to law and custom, is compelled to do what is juster and better and nobler than he did before, the last and most absurd thing which he could say about such violence is that he has incurred disgrace or evil or injustice at the hands of those who compelled him. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα λέγεις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
ἀλλ᾽ ἆρα ἐὰν μὲν πλούσιος ὁ βιασάμενος ᾖ, δίκαια, ἂν δ᾽ ἄρα πένης, ἄδικα τὰ βιασθέντα ἐστίν; ἢ κἂν πείσας κἂν μὴ πείσας τις, πλούσιος ἢ πένης, ἢ κατὰ γράμματα ἢ (296e) παρὰ γράμματα, δρᾷ μὴ σύμφορα ἢ σύμφορα, τοῦτον δεῖ καὶ περὶ ταῦτα τὸν ὅρον εἶναι τόν γε ἀληθινώτατον ὀρθῆς πόλεως διοικήσεως, ὃν ὁ σοφὸς καὶ ἀγαθὸς ἀνὴρ διοικήσει τὸ τῶν ἀρχομένων; 
ὥσπερ ὁ κυβερνήτης τὸ τῆς νεὼς καὶ (297a) ναυτῶν ἀεὶ συμφέρον παραφυλάττων, οὐ γράμματα τιθεὶς ἀλλὰ τὴν τέχνην νόμον παρεχόμενος, σῴζει τοὺς συνναύτας, οὕτω καὶ κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον τοῦτον παρὰ τῶν οὕτως ἄρχειν δυναμένων ὀρθὴ γίγνοιτ᾽ ἂν πολιτεία, τὴν τῆς τέχνης ῥώμην τῶν νόμων παρεχομένων κρείττω;  καὶ πάντα ποιοῦσι τοῖς ἔμφροσιν ἄρχουσιν οὐκ ἔστιν ἁμάρτημα, μέχριπερ ἂν (297b) ἓν μέγα φυλάττωσι, τὸ μετὰ νοῦ καὶ τέχνης δικαιότατον ἀεὶ διανέμοντες τοῖς ἐν τῇ πόλει σῴζειν τε αὐτοὺς οἷοί τε ὦσιν καὶ ἀμείνους ἐκ χειρόνων ἀποτελεῖν κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν; 
STRANGER:
And shall we say that the violence, if exercised by a rich man, is just, and if by a poor man, unjust? May not any man, rich or poor, with or without laws, with the will of the citizens or against the will of the citizens, do what is for their interest? Is not this the true principle of government, according to which the wise and good man will order the affairs of his subjects? 
As the pilot, by watching continually over the interests of the ship and of the crew,--not by laying down rules, but by making his art a law,--preserves the lives of his fellow-sailors, even so, and in the self-same way, may there not be a true form of polity created by those who are able to govern in a similar spirit, and who show a strength of art which is superior to the law?  Nor can wise rulers ever err while they observing the one great rule of distributing justice to the citizens with intelligence and skill, are able to preserve them, and, as far as may be, to make them better from being worse. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκ ἔστ᾽ ἀντειπεῖν παρά γε ἃ νῦν εἴρηται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
No one can deny what has been now said. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν πρὸς ἐκεῖνα οὐδὲ ἀντιρρητέον. 
STRANGER:
Neither, if you consider, can any one deny the other statement. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὰ ποῖα εἶπες; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What was it? 
Ξένος
ὡς οὐκ ἄν ποτε πλῆθος οὐδ᾽ ὡντινωνοῦν τὴν τοιαύτην λαβὸν ἐπιστήμην οἷόν τ᾽ ἂν γένοιτο μετὰ νοῦ διοικεῖν (297c) πόλιν, ἀλλὰ περὶ σμικρόν τι καὶ ὀλίγον καὶ τὸ ἕν ἐστι ζητητέον τὴν μίαν ἐκείνην πολιτείαν τὴν ὀρθήν, τὰς δ᾽ ἄλλας μιμήματα θετέον, ὥσπερ καὶ ὀλίγον πρότερον ἐρρήθη, τὰς μὲν ἐπὶ τὰ καλλίονα, τὰς δ᾽ ἐπὶ τὰ αἰσχίω μιμουμένας ταύτην. 
STRANGER:
We said that no great number of persons, whoever they may be, can attain political knowledge, or order a State wisely, but that the true government is to be found in a small body, or in an individual, and that other States are but imitations of this, as we said a little while ago, some for the better and some for the worse. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς τί τοῦτ᾽ εἴρηκας; οὐδὲ γὰρ ἄρτι δῆθεν κατέμαθον τὸ περὶ τῶν μιμημάτων. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? I cannot have understood your previous remark about imitations. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν οὐ φαῦλόν γε, ἂν κινήσας τις τοῦτον τὸν λόγον αὐτοῦ καταβάλῃ καὶ μὴ διελθὼν ἐνδείξηται τὸ νῦν (297d) γιγνόμενον ἁμάρτημα περὶ αὐτό. 
STRANGER:
And yet the mere suggestion which I hastily threw out is highly important, even if we leave the question where it is, and do not seek by the discussion of it to expose the error which prevails in this matter. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
τοιόνδε τι δεῖ γε ζητεῖν, οὐ πάνυ σύνηθες οὐδὲ ῥᾴδιον ἰδεῖν: ὅμως μὴν πειρώμεθα λαβεῖν αὐτό. φέρε γάρ: ὀρθῆς ἡμῖν μόνης οὔσης ταύτης τῆς πολιτείας ἣν εἰρήκαμεν, οἶσθ᾽ ὅτι τὰς ἄλλας δεῖ τοῖς ταύτης συγγράμμασι χρωμένας οὕτω σῴζεσθαι, δρώσας τὸ νῦν ἐπαινούμενον, καίπερ οὐκ ὀρθότατον ὄν; 
STRANGER:
The idea which has to be grasped by us is not easy or familiar; but we may attempt to express it thus:--Supposing the government of which I have been speaking to be the only true model, then the others must use the written laws of this--in no other way can they be saved; they will have to do what is now generally approved, although not the best thing in the world. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; (297e) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is this? 
Ξένος
τὸ παρὰ τοὺς νόμους μηδὲν μηδένα τολμᾶν ποιεῖν τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει, τὸν τολμῶντα δὲ θανάτῳ ζημιοῦσθαι καὶ πᾶσι τοῖς ἐσχάτοις. καὶ τοῦτ᾽ ἔστιν ὀρθότατα καὶ κάλλιστ᾽ ἔχον ὡς δεύτερον, ἐπειδὰν τὸ πρῶτόν τις μεταθῇ τὸ νυνδὴ ῥηθέν: ᾧ δὲ τρόπῳ γεγονός ἐστι τοῦτο ὃ δὴ δεύτερον ἐφήσαμεν, διαπερανώμεθα. ἦ γάρ; 
STRANGER:
No citizen should do anything contrary to the laws, and any infringement of them should be punished with death and the most extreme penalties; and this is very right and good when regarded as the second best thing, if you set aside the first, of which I was just now speaking. Shall I explain the nature of what I call the second best? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
By all means. 
Ξένος
εἰς δὴ τὰς εἰκόνας ἐπανίωμεν πάλιν, αἷς ἀναγκαῖον ἀπεικάζειν ἀεὶ τοὺς βασιλικοὺς ἄρχοντας. 
STRANGER:
I must again have recourse to my favourite images; through them, and them alone, can I describe kings and rulers. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποίας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What images? 
Ξένος
τὸν γενναῖον κυβερνήτην καὶ τὸν ἑτέρων πολλῶν ἀντάξιον ἰατρόν. κατίδωμεν γὰρ δή τι σχῆμα ἐν τούτοις αὐτοῖς πλασάμενοι. 
STRANGER:
The noble pilot and the wise physician, who 'is worth many another man'--in the similitude of these let us endeavour to discover some image of the king. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖόν τι; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What sort of an image? 
(298a) Ξένος
τοιόνδε: οἷον εἰ πάντες περὶ αὐτῶν διανοηθεῖμεν ὅτι δεινότατα ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν πάσχομεν. ὃν μὲν γὰρ ἂν ἐθελήσωσιν ἡμῶν τούτων ἑκάτεροι σῴζειν, ὁμοίως δὴ σῴζουσιν, ὃν δ᾽ ἂν λωβᾶσθαι βουληθῶσιν, λωβῶνται τέμνοντες καὶ κάοντες καὶ προστάττοντες ἀναλώματα φέρειν παρ᾽ ἑαυτοὺς οἷον φόρους, ὧν σμικρὰ μὲν εἰς τὸν κάμνοντα καὶ οὐδὲν ἀναλίσκουσιν, τοῖς δ᾽ ἄλλοις αὐτοί τε καὶ οἱ οἰκέται χρῶνται: καὶ (298b) δὴ καὶ τελευτῶντες ἢ παρὰ συγγενῶν ἢ παρά τινων ἐχθρῶν τοῦ κάμνοντος χρήματα μισθὸν λαμβάνοντες ἀποκτεινύασιν. 
οἵ τ᾽ αὖ κυβερνῆται μυρία ἕτερα τοιαῦτα ἐργάζονται, καταλείποντές τε ἔκ τινος ἐπιβουλῆς ἐν ταῖς ἀναγωγαῖς ἐρήμους, καὶ σφάλματα ποιοῦντες ἐν τοῖς πελάγεσιν ἐκβάλλουσιν εἰς τὴν θάλατταν, καὶ ἕτερα κακουργοῦσιν.  εἰ δὴ ταῦτα διανοηθέντες βουλευσαίμεθα περὶ αὐτῶν βουλήν τινα, τούτων (298c) τῶν τεχνῶν μηκέτι ἐπιτρέπειν ἄρχειν αὐτοκράτορι μηδετέρᾳ μήτ᾽ οὖν δούλων μήτ᾽ ἐλευθέρων, συλλέξαι δ᾽ ἐκκλησίαν ἡμῶν αὐτῶν, ἢ σύμπαντα τὸν δῆμον ἢ τοὺς πλουσίους μόνον, ἐξεῖναι δὲ καὶ ἰδιωτῶν καὶ τῶν ἄλλων δημιουργῶν περί τε πλοῦ καὶ περὶ νόσων γνώμην ξυμβαλέσθαι καθ᾽ ὅτι χρὴ τοῖς φαρμάκοις ἡμᾶς καὶ τοῖς ἰατρικοῖς ὀργάνοις πρὸς τοὺς κάμνοντας χρῆσθαι, καὶ δὴ καὶ τοῖς πλοίοις τε αὐτοῖς καὶ (298d) τοῖς ναυτικοῖς ὀργάνοις εἰς τὴν τῶν πλοίων χρείαν καὶ περὶ τοὺς κινδύνους τούς τε πρὸς αὐτὸν τὸν πλοῦν ἀνέμων καὶ θαλάττης πέρι καὶ πρὸς τὰς τοῖς λῃσταῖς ἐντεύξεις, καὶ ἐὰν ναυμαχεῖν ἄρα δέῃ που μακροῖς πλοίοις πρὸς ἕτερα τοιαῦτα: τὰ δὲ τῷ πλήθει δόξαντα περὶ τούτων, εἴτε τινῶν ἰατρῶν καὶ κυβερνητῶν εἴτ᾽ ἄλλων ἰδιωτῶν συμβουλευόντων, γράψαντας (298e) ἐν κύρβεσί τισι καὶ στήλαις, τὰ δὲ καὶ ἄγραφα πάτρια θεμένους ἔθη, κατὰ ταῦτα ἤδη πάντα τὸν ἔπειτα χρόνον ναυτίλλεσθαι καὶ τὰς τῶν καμνόντων θεραπείας ποιεῖσθαι. 
STRANGER:
Well, such as this:--Every man will reflect that he suffers strange things at the hands of both of them; the physician saves any whom he wishes to save, and any whom he wishes to maltreat he maltreats--cutting or burning them; and at the same time requiring them to bring him payments, which are a sort of tribute, of which little or nothing is spent upon the sick man, and the greater part is consumed by him and his domestics; and the finale is that he receives money from the relations of the sick man or from some enemy of his, and puts him out of the way 
And the pilots of ships are guilty of numberless evil deeds of the same kind; they intentionally play false and leave you ashore when the hour of sailing arrives; or they cause mishaps at sea and cast away their freight; and are guilty of other rogueries.  Now suppose that we, bearing all this in mind, were to determine, after consideration, that neither of these arts shall any longer be allowed to exercise absolute control either over freemen or over slaves, but that we will summon an assembly either of all the people, or of the rich only, that anybody who likes, whatever may be his calling, or even if he have no calling, may offer an opinion either about seamanship or about diseases--whether as to the manner in which physic or surgical instruments are to be applied to the patient, or again about the vessels and the nautical implements which are required in navigation, and how to meet the dangers of winds and waves which are incidental to the voyage, how to behave when encountering pirates, and what is to be done with the old-fashioned galleys, if they have to fight with others of a similar build--and that, whatever shall be decreed by the multitude on these points, upon the advice of persons skilled or unskilled, shall be written down on triangular tablets and columns, or enacted although unwritten to be national customs; and that in all future time vessels shall be navigated and remedies administered to the patient after this fashion. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κομιδῇ γε εἴρηκας ἄτοπα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What a strange notion! 
Ξένος
κατ᾽ ἐνιαυτὸν δέ γε ἄρχοντας καθίστασθαι τοῦ πλήθους, εἴτε ἐκ τῶν πλουσίων εἴτε ἐκ τοῦ δήμου παντός, ὃς ἂν κληρούμενος λαγχάνῃ: τοὺς δὲ καταστάντας ἄρχοντας ἄρχειν κατὰ τὰ γράμματα κυβερνῶντας τὰς ναῦς καὶ τοὺς κάμνοντας ἰωμένους. 
STRANGER:
Suppose further, that the pilots and physicians are appointed annually, either out of the rich, or out of the whole people, and that they are elected by lot; and that after their election they navigate vessels and heal the sick according to the written rules. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ταῦτ᾽ ἔτι χαλεπώτερα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Worse and worse. 
Ξένος
θεῶ δὴ καὶ τὸ μετὰ ταῦτα ἑπόμενον. ἐπειδὰν γὰρ δὴ τῶν ἀρχόντων ἑκάστοις ὁ ἐνιαυτὸς ἐξέλθῃ, δεήσει δικαστήρια καθίσαντας ἀνδρῶν, ἢ τῶν πλουσίων ἐκ προκρίσεως ἢ (299a) σύμπαντος αὖ τοῦ δήμου τοὺς λαχόντας, εἰς τούτους εἰσάγειν τοὺς ἄρξαντας καὶ εὐθύνειν, κατηγορεῖν δὲ τὸν βουλόμενον ὡς οὐ κατὰ τὰ γράμματα τὸν ἐνιαυτὸν ἐκυβέρνησε τὰς ναῦς οὐδὲ κατὰ τὰ παλαιὰ τῶν προγόνων ἔθη: ταὐτὰ δὲ ταῦτα καὶ περὶ τῶν τοὺς κάμνοντας ἰωμένων: ὧν δ᾽ ἂν καταψηφισθῇ τιμᾶν ὅτι χρὴ παθεῖν αὐτῶν τινας ἢ ἀποτίνειν. 
STRANGER:
But hear what follows:--When the year of office has expired, the pilot or physician has to come before a court of review, in which the judges are either selected from the wealthy classes or chosen by lot out of the whole people; and anybody who pleases may be their accuser, and may lay to their charge, that during the past year they have not navigated their vessels or healed their patients according to the letter of the law and the ancient customs of their ancestors; and if either of them is condemned, some of the judges must fix what he is to suffer or pay. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν ὅ γ᾽ ἐθέλων καὶ ἑκὼν ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις (299b) ἄρχειν δικαιότατ᾽ ἂν ὁτιοῦν πάσχοι καὶ ἀποτίνοι. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
He who is willing to take a command under such conditions, deserves to suffer any penalty. 
Ξένος
καὶ τοίνυν ἔτι δεήσει θέσθαι νόμον ἐπὶ πᾶσι τούτοις, ἄν τις κυβερνητικὴν καὶ τὸ ναυτικὸν ἢ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν καὶ ἰατρικῆς ἀλήθειαν περὶ πνεύματά τε καὶ θερμὰ καὶ ψυχρὰ ζητῶν φαίνηται παρὰ τὰ γράμματα καὶ σοφιζόμενος ὁτιοῦν περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα, πρῶτον μὲν μήτε ἰατρικὸν αὐτὸν μήτε κυβερνητικὸν ὀνομάζειν ἀλλὰ μετεωρολόγον, ἀδολέσχην τινὰ σοφιστήν, εἶθ᾽ ὡς διαφθείροντα ἄλλους νεωτέρους καὶ ἀναπείθοντα (299c) ἐπιτίθεσθαι κυβερνητικῇ καὶ ἰατρικῇ μὴ κατὰ νόμους, ἀλλ᾽ αὐτοκράτορας ἄρχειν τῶν πλοίων καὶ τῶν νοσούντων, γραψάμενον εἰσάγειν τὸν βουλόμενον οἷς ἔξεστιν εἰς δή τι δικαστήριον: ἂν δὲ παρὰ τοὺς νόμους καὶ τὰ γεγραμμένα δόξῃ πείθειν εἴτε νέους εἴτε πρεσβύτας, κολάζειν τοῖς ἐσχάτοις. 
οὐδὲν γὰρ δεῖν τῶν νόμων εἶναι σοφώτερον: οὐδένα γὰρ ἀγνοεῖν τό τε ἰατρικὸν καὶ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν οὐδὲ τὸ κυβερνητικὸν καὶ ναυτικόν: ἐξεῖναι γὰρ τῷ βουλομένῳ μανθάνειν (299d) γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια ἔθη κείμενα.  ταῦτα δὴ περί τε ταύτας τὰς ἐπιστήμας εἰ γίγνοιτο οὕτως ὡς λέγομεν, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ στρατηγικῆς καὶ συμπάσης ἡστινοσοῦν θηρευτικῆς καὶ γραφικῆς ἢ συμπάσης μέρος ὁτιοῦν μιμητικῆς καὶ τεκτονικῆς καὶ συνόλης ὁποιασοῦν σκευουργίας ἢ καὶ γεωργίας καὶ τῆς περὶ τὰ φυτὰ συνόλης τέχνης, ἢ καί τινα ἱπποφορβίαν αὖ κατὰ συγγράμματα θεασαίμεθα γιγνομένην ἢ σύμπασαν ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ἢ μαντικὴν ἢ πᾶν ὅτι μέρος διακονικὴ (299e) περιείληφεν, ἢ πεττείαν ἢ σύμπασαν ἀριθμητικὴν ψιλὴν εἴτε ἐπίπεδον εἴτ᾽ ἐν βάθεσιν εἴτ᾽ ἐν τάχεσιν οὖσάν που, — περὶ ἅπαντα ταῦτα οὕτω πραττόμενα τί ποτ᾽ ἂν φανείη, κατὰ συγγράμματα γιγνόμενα καὶ μὴ κατὰ τέχνην; 
STRANGER:
Yet once more, we shall have to enact that if any one is detected enquiring into piloting and navigation, or into health and the true nature of medicine, or about the winds, or other conditions of the atmosphere, contrary to the written rules, and has any ingenious notions about such matters, he is not to be called a pilot or physician, but a cloudy prating sophist;--further, on the ground that he is a corrupter of the young, who would persuade them to follow the art of medicine or piloting in an unlawful manner, and to exercise an arbitrary rule over their patients or ships, any one who is qualified by law may inform against him, and indict him in some court, and then if he is found to be persuading any, whether young or old, to act contrary to the written law, he is to be punished with the utmost rigour; 
for no one should presume to be wiser than the laws; and as touching healing and health and piloting and navigation, the nature of them is known to all, for anybody may learn the written laws and the national customs.  If such were the mode of procedure, Socrates, about these sciences and about generalship, and any branch of hunting, or about painting or imitation in general, or carpentry, or any sort of handicraft, or husbandry, or planting, or if we were to see an art of rearing horses, or tending herds, or divination, or any ministerial service, or draught-playing, or any science conversant with number, whether simple or square or cube, or comprising motion,--I say, if all these things were done in this way according to written regulations, and not according to art, what would be the result? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον ὅτι πᾶσαί τε αἱ τέχναι παντελῶς ἂν ἀπόλοιντο ἡμῖν, καὶ οὐδ᾽ εἰς αὖθις γένοιντ᾽ ἄν ποτε διὰ τὸν ἀποκωλύοντα τοῦτον ζητεῖν νόμον: ὥστε ὁ βίος, ὢν καὶ νῦν χαλεπός, εἰς τὸν χρόνον ἐκεῖνον ἀβίωτος γίγνοιτ᾽ ἂν τὸ παράπαν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
All the arts would utterly perish, and could never be recovered, because enquiry would be unlawful. And human life, which is bad enough already, would then become utterly unendurable. 
(300a) Ξένος
τί δὲ τόδε; εἰ κατὰ συγγράμματα μὲν ἀναγκάζοιμεν ἕκαστον γίγνεσθαι τῶν εἰρημένων καὶ τοῖς συγγράμμασιν ἡμῶν ἐπιστατεῖν τὸν χειροτονηθέντα ἢ λαχόντα ἐκ τύχης, οὗτος δὲ μηδὲν φροντίζων τῶν γραμμάτων ἢ κέρδους ἕνεκέν τινος ἢ χάριτος ἰδίας παρὰ ταῦτ᾽ ἐπιχειροῖ δρᾶν ἕτερα, μηδὲν γιγνώσκων, ἆρα οὐ τοῦ κακοῦ τοῦ πρόσθεν μεῖζον ἂν ἔτι τοῦτο γίγνοιτο κακόν; 
STRANGER:
But what, if while compelling all these operations to be regulated by written law, we were to appoint as the guardian of the laws some one elected by a show of hands, or by lot, and he caring nothing about the laws, were to act contrary to them from motives of interest or favour, and without knowledge,--would not this be a still worse evil than the former? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατά γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
(300b) Ξένος
παρὰ γὰρ οἶμαι τοὺς νόμους τοὺς ἐκ πείρας πολλῆς κειμένους καί τινων συμβούλων ἕκαστα χαριέντως συμβουλευσάντων καὶ πεισάντων θέσθαι τὸ πλῆθος, ὁ παρὰ ταῦτα τολμῶν δρᾶν, ἁμαρτήματος ἁμάρτημα πολλαπλάσιον ἀπεργαζόμενος, ἀνατρέποι πᾶσαν ἂν πρᾶξιν ἔτι μειζόνως τῶν συγγραμμάτων. 
STRANGER:
To go against the laws, which are based upon long experience, and the wisdom of counsellors who have graciously recommended them and persuaded the multitude to pass them, would be a far greater and more ruinous error than any adherence to written law? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὐ μέλλει; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
(300c) Ξένος
διὰ ταῦτα δὴ τοῖς περὶ ὁτουοῦν νόμους καὶ συγγράμματα τιθεμένοις δεύτερος πλοῦς τὸ παρὰ ταῦτα μήτε ἕνα μήτε πλῆθος μηδὲν μηδέποτε ἐᾶν δρᾶν μηδ᾽ ὁτιοῦν. 
STRANGER:
Therefore, as there is a danger of this, the next best thing in legislating is not to allow either the individual or the multitude to break the law in any respect whatever. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν μιμήματα μὲν ἂν ἑκάστων ταῦτα εἴη τῆς ἀληθείας, τὰ παρὰ τῶν εἰδότων εἰς δύναμιν εἶναι γεγραμμένα; 
STRANGER:
The laws would be copies of the true particulars of action as far as they admit of being written down from the lips of those who have knowledge? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly they would. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν τόν γε εἰδότα ἔφαμεν, τὸν ὄντως πολιτικόν, εἰ μεμνήμεθα, ποιήσειν τῇ τέχνῃ πολλὰ εἰς τὴν αὑτοῦ πρᾶξιν τῶν γραμμάτων οὐδὲν φροντίζοντα, ὁπόταν ἄλλ᾽ αὐτῷ (300d) βελτίω δόξῃ παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα ὑφ᾽ αὑτοῦ καὶ ἐπεσταλμένα ἀποῦσίν τισιν. 
STRANGER:
And, as we were saying, he who has knowledge and is a true Statesman, will do many things within his own sphere of action by his art without regard to the laws, when he is of opinion that something other than that which he has written down and enjoined to be observed during his absence would be better. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔφαμεν γάρ. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, we said so. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἀνὴρ ὁστισοῦν εἷς ἢ πλῆθος ὁτιοῦν, οἷς ἂν νόμοι κείμενοι τυγχάνωσι, παρὰ ταῦτα ὅτι ἂν ἐπιχειρήσωσι ποιεῖν ὡς βέλτιον ἕτερον ὄν, ταὐτὸν δρῶσι κατὰ δύναμιν ὅπερ ὁ ἀληθινὸς ἐκεῖνος; 
STRANGER:
And any individual or any number of men, having fixed laws, in acting contrary to them with a view to something better, would only be acting, as far as they are able, like the true Statesman? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν εἰ μὲν ἀνεπιστήμονες ὄντες τὸ τοιοῦτον δρῷεν, μιμεῖσθαι μὲν ἂν ἐπιχειροῖεν τὸ ἀληθές, μιμοῖντ᾽ ἂν (300e) μέντοι παγκάκως: εἰ δ᾽ ἔντεχνοι, τοῦτο οὐκ ἔστιν ἔτι μίμημα ἀλλ᾽ αὐτὸ τὸ ἀληθέστατον ἐκεῖνο; 
STRANGER:
If they had no knowledge of what they were doing, they would imitate the truth, and they would always imitate ill; but if they had knowledge, the imitation would be the perfect truth, and an imitation no longer. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάντως που. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ἔμπροσθέ γε ὡμολογημένον ἡμῖν κεῖται μηδὲν πλῆθος μηδ᾽ ἡντινοῦν δυνατὸν εἶναι λαβεῖν τέχνην. 
STRANGER:
And the principle that no great number of men are able to acquire a knowledge of any art has been already admitted by us. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κεῖται γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, it has. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν εἰ μὲν ἔστι βασιλική τις τέχνη, τὸ τῶν πλουσίων πλῆθος καὶ ὁ σύμπας δῆμος οὐκ ἄν ποτε λάβοι τὴν πολιτικὴν ταύτην ἐπιστήμην. 
STRANGER:
Then the royal or political art, if there be such an art, will never be attained either by the wealthy or by the other mob. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ ἄν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Impossible. 
Ξένος
δεῖ δὴ τὰς τοιαύτας γε ὡς ἔοικε πολιτείας, εἰ μέλλουσι (301a) καλῶς τὴν ἀληθινὴν ἐκείνην τὴν τοῦ ἑνὸς μετὰ τέχνης ἄρχοντος πολιτείαν εἰς δύναμιν μιμήσεσθαι, μηδέποτε κειμένων αὐτοῖς τῶν νόμων μηδὲν ποιεῖν παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια ἔθη. 
STRANGER:
Then the nearest approach which these lower forms of government can ever make to the true government of the one scientific ruler, is to do nothing contrary to their own written laws and national customs. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κάλλιστ᾽ εἴρηκας. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
ὅταν ἄρα οἱ πλούσιοι ταύτην μιμῶνται, τότε ἀριστοκρατίαν καλοῦμεν τὴν τοιαύτην πολιτείαν: ὁπόταν δὲ τῶν νόμων μὴ φροντίζωσιν, ὀλιγαρχίαν. 
STRANGER:
When the rich imitate the true form, such a government is called aristocracy; and when they are regardless of the laws, oligarchy. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύει. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ὁπόταν αὖθις εἷς ἄρχῃ κατὰ νόμους, μιμούμενος (301b) τὸν ἐπιστήμονα, βασιλέα καλοῦμεν, οὐ διορίζοντες ὀνόματι τὸν μετ᾽ ἐπιστήμης ἢ δόξης κατὰ νόμους μοναρχοῦντα. 
STRANGER:
Or again, when an individual rules according to law in imitation of him who knows, we call him a king; and if he rules according to law, we give him the same name, whether he rules with opinion or with knowledge. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύομεν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To be sure. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν κἄν τις ἄρα ἐπιστήμων ὄντως ὢν εἷς ἄρχῃ, πάντως τό γε ὄνομα ταὐτὸν βασιλεὺς καὶ οὐδὲν ἕτερον προσρηθήσεται: δι᾽ ἃ δὴ τὰ πέντε ὀνόματα τῶν νῦν λεγομένων πολιτειῶν ἓν μόνον γέγονεν. 
STRANGER:
And when an individual truly possessing knowledge rules, his name will surely be the same--he will be called a king; and thus the five names of governments, as they are now reckoned, become one. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικε γοῦν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is true. 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽ ὅταν μήτε κατὰ νόμους μήτε κατὰ ἔθη πράττῃ (301c) τις εἷς ἄρχων, προσποιῆται δὲ ὥσπερ ὁ ἐπιστήμων ὡς ἄρα παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα τό γε βέλτιστον ποιητέον, ᾖ δέ τις ἐπιθυμία καὶ ἄγνοια τούτου τοῦ μιμήματος ἡγουμένη, μῶν οὐ τότε τὸν τοιοῦτον ἕκαστον τύραννον κλητέον; 
STRANGER:
And when an individual ruler governs neither by law nor by custom, but following in the steps of the true man of science pretends that he can only act for the best by violating the laws, while in reality appetite and ignorance are the motives of the imitation, may not such an one be called a tyrant? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
οὕτω δὴ τύραννός τε γέγονε, φαμέν, καὶ βασιλεὺς καὶ ὀλιγαρχία καὶ ἀριστοκρατία καὶ δημοκρατία, δυσχερανάντων τῶν ἀνθρώπων τὸν ἕνα ἐκεῖνον μόναρχον, καὶ ἀπιστησάντων μηδένα τῆς τοιαύτης ἀρχῆς ἄξιον ἂν γενέσθαι ποτέ, (301d) ὥστε ἐθέλειν καὶ δυνατὸν εἶναι μετ᾽ ἀρετῆς καὶ ἐπιστήμης ἄρχοντα τὰ δίκαια καὶ ὅσια διανέμειν ὀρθῶς πᾶσιν, λωβᾶσθαι δὲ καὶ ἀποκτεινύναι καὶ κακοῦν ὃν ἂν βουληθῇ ἑκάστοτε ἡμῶν: ἐπεὶ γενόμενόν γ᾽ ἂν οἷον λέγομεν ἀγαπᾶσθαί τε ἂν καὶ οἰκεῖν διακυβερνῶντα εὐδαιμόνως ὀρθὴν ἀκριβῶς μόνον πολιτείαν. 
STRANGER:
And this we believe to be the origin of the tyrant and the king, of oligarchies, and aristocracies, and democracies,--because men are offended at the one monarch, and can never be made to believe that any one can be worthy of such authority, or is able and willing in the spirit of virtue and knowledge to act justly and holily to all; they fancy that he will be a despot who will wrong and harm and slay whom he pleases of us; for if there could be such a despot as we describe, they would acknowledge that we ought to be too glad to have him, and that he alone would be the happy ruler of a true and perfect State. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To be sure. 
Ξένος
νῦν δέ γε ὁπότε οὐκ ἔστι γιγνόμενος, ὡς δή (301e) φαμεν, ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι βασιλεὺς οἷος ἐν σμήνεσιν ἐμφύεται, τό τε σῶμα εὐθὺς καὶ τὴν ψυχὴν διαφέρων εἷς, δεῖ δὴ συνελθόντας συγγράμματα γράφειν, ὡς ἔοικεν, μεταθέοντας τὰ τῆς ἀληθεστάτης πολιτείας ἴχνη. 
STRANGER:
But then, as the State is not like a beehive, and has no natural head who is at once recognized to be the superior both in body and in mind, mankind are obliged to meet and make laws, and endeavour to approach as nearly as they can to the true form of government. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύει. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
θαυμάζομεν δῆτα, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐν ταῖς τοιαύταις πολιτείαις ὅσα συμβαίνει γίγνεσθαι κακὰ καὶ ὅσα συμβήσεται, τοιαύτης τῆς κρηπῖδος ὑποκειμένης αὐταῖς, τῆς κατὰ γράμματα καὶ ἔθη μὴ μετὰ ἐπιστήμης πραττούσης τὰς (302a) πράξεις, ᾗ ἑτέρα προσχρωμένη παντὶ κατάδηλος ὡς πάντ᾽ ἂν διολέσειε τὰ ταύτῃ γιγνόμενα; ἢ ἐκεῖνο ἡμῖν θαυμαστέον μᾶλλον, ὡς ἰσχυρόν τι πόλις ἐστὶ φύσει; 
πάσχουσαι γὰρ δὴ τοιαῦτα αἱ πόλεις νῦν χρόνον ἀπέραντον, ὅμως ἔνιαί τινες αὐτῶν μόνιμοί τέ εἰσι καὶ οὐκ ἀνατρέπονται: πολλαὶ μὴν ἐνίοτε καὶ καθάπερ πλοῖα καταδυόμεναι διόλλυνται καὶ διολώλασι καὶ ἔτι διολοῦνται διὰ τὴν τῶν κυβερνητῶν καὶ ναυτῶν μοχθηρίαν τῶν περὶ τὰ μέγιστα μεγίστην ἄγνοιαν (302b) εἰληφότων, οἳ περὶ τὰ πολιτικὰ κατ᾽ οὐδὲν γιγνώσκοντες ἡγοῦνται κατὰ πάντα σαφέστατα πασῶν ἐπιστημῶν ταύτην εἰληφέναι. 
STRANGER:
And when the foundation of politics is in the letter only and in custom, and knowledge is divorced from action, can we wonder, Socrates, at the miseries which there are, and always will be, in States? Any other art, built on such a foundation and thus conducted, would ruin all that it touched. Ought we not rather to wonder at the natural strength of the political bond? 
For States have endured all this, time out of mind, and yet some of them still remain and are not overthrown, though many of them, like ships at sea, founder from time to time, and perish and have perished and will hereafter perish, through the badness of their pilots and crews, who have the worst sort of ignorance of the highest truths--I mean to say, that they are wholly unaquainted with politics, of which, above all other sciences, they believe themselves to have acquired the most perfect knowledge. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τίς οὖν δὴ τῶν οὐκ ὀρθῶν πολιτειῶν τούτων ἥκιστα χαλεπὴ συζῆν, πασῶν χαλεπῶν οὐσῶν, καὶ τίς βαρυτάτη; δεῖ τι κατιδεῖν ἡμᾶς, καίπερ πρός γε τὸ νῦν προτεθὲν ἡμῖν πάρεργον λεγόμενον; οὐ μὴν ἀλλ᾽ εἴς γε τὸ ὅλον ἴσως ἅπανθ᾽ ἕνεκα τοῦ τοιούτου πάντες δρῶμεν χάριν. 
STRANGER:
Then the question arises:--which of these untrue forms of government is the least oppressive to their subjects, though they are all oppressive; and which is the worst of them? Here is a consideration which is beside our present purpose, and yet having regard to the whole it seems to influence all our actions: we must examine it. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δεῖ: πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, we must. 
(302c) Ξένος
τὴν αὐτὴν τοίνυν φάθι τριῶν οὐσῶν χαλεπὴν διαφερόντως γίγνεσθαι καὶ ῥᾴστην. 
STRANGER:
You may say that of the three forms, the same is at once the hardest and the easiest. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς φῄς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What do you mean? 
Ξένος
οὐκ ἄλλως, πλὴν μοναρχίαν φημὶ καὶ ὀλίγων ἀρχὴν καὶ πολλῶν, εἶναι τρεῖς ταύτας ἡμῖν λεγομένας τοῦ νῦν ἐπικεχυμένου λόγου κατ᾽ ἀρχάς. 
STRANGER:
I am speaking of the three forms of government, which I mentioned at the beginning of this discussion--monarchy, the rule of the few, and the rule of the many. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἦσαν γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
ταύτας τοίνυν δίχα τέμνοντες μίαν ἑκάστην ἓξ ποιῶμεν, τὴν ὀρθὴν χωρὶς ἀποκρίναντες τούτων ἑβδόμην. 
STRANGER:
If we divide each of these we shall have six, from which the true one may be distinguished as a seventh. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How would you make the division? 
(302d) Ξένος
ἐκ μὲν τῆς μοναρχίας βασιλικὴν καὶ τυραννικήν, ἐκ δ᾽ αὖ τῶν μὴ πολλῶν τήν τε εὐώνυμον ἔφαμεν εἶναι ἀριστοκρατίαν καὶ ὀλιγαρχίαν: ἐκ δ᾽ αὖ τῶν πολλῶν τότε μὲν ἁπλῆν ἐπονομάζοντες ἐτίθεμεν δημοκρατίαν, νῦν δ᾽ αὖ καὶ ταύτην ἡμῖν θετέον ἐστὶ διπλῆν. 
STRANGER:
Monarchy divides into royalty and tyranny; the rule of the few into aristocracy, which has an auspicious name, and oligarchy; and democracy or the rule of the many, which before was one, must now be divided. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δή; καὶ τίνι διαιροῦντες ταύτην; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
On what principle of division? 
Ξένος
οὐδὲν διαφέροντι τῶν ἄλλων, οὐδ᾽ εἰ τοὔνομα ἤδη (302e) διπλοῦν ἐστι ταύτης: ἀλλὰ τό γε κατὰ νόμους ἄρχειν καὶ παρανόμως ἔστι καὶ ταύτῃ καὶ ταῖς ἄλλαις. 
STRANGER:
On the same principle as before, although the name is now discovered to have a twofold meaning. For the distinction of ruling with law or without law, applies to this as well as to the rest. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστι γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τότε μὲν τοίνυν τὴν ὀρθὴν ζητοῦσι τοῦτο τὸ τμῆμα οὐκ ἦν χρήσιμον, ὡς ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἀπεδείξαμεν: ἐπειδὴ δὲ ἐξείλομεν ἐκείνην, τὰς δ᾽ ἄλλας ἔθεμεν ἀναγκαίας, ἐν ταύταις δὴ τὸ παράνομον καὶ ἔννομον ἑκάστην διχοτομεῖ τούτων. 
STRANGER:
The division made no difference when we were looking for the perfect State, as we showed before. But now that this has been separated off, and, as we said, the others alone are left for us, the principle of law and the absence of law will bisect them all. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικεν τούτου νῦν ῥηθέντος τοῦ λόγου. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That would seem to follow, from what has been said. 
Ξένος
μοναρχία τοίνυν ζευχθεῖσα μὲν ἐν γράμμασιν ἀγαθοῖς, οὓς νόμους λέγομεν, ἀρίστη πασῶν τῶν ἕξ: ἄνομος δὲ χαλεπὴ καὶ βαρυτάτη συνοικῆσαι. 
STRANGER:
Then monarchy, when bound by good prescriptions or laws, is the best of all the six, and when lawless is the most bitter and oppressive to the subject. 
(303a) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύει. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τὴν δέ γε τῶν μὴ πολλῶν, ὥσπερ ἑνὸς καὶ πλήθους τὸ ὀλίγον μέσον, οὕτως ἡγησώμεθα μέσην ἐπ᾽ ἀμφότερα: τὴν δ᾽ αὖ τοῦ πλήθους κατὰ πάντα ἀσθενῆ καὶ μηδὲν μήτε ἀγαθὸν μήτε κακὸν μέγα δυναμένην ὡς πρὸς τὰς ἄλλας διὰ τὸ τὰς ἀρχὰς ἐν ταύτῃ διανενεμῆσθαι κατὰ σμικρὰ εἰς πολλούς. 
διὸ γέγονε πασῶν μὲν νομίμων τῶν πολιτειῶν οὐσῶν τούτων χειρίστη, παρανόμων δὲ οὐσῶν συμπασῶν βελτίστη: (303b) καὶ ἀκολάστων μὲν πασῶν οὐσῶν ἐν δημοκρατίᾳ νικᾷ ζῆν, κοσμίων δ᾽ οὐσῶν ἥκιστα ἐν ταύτῃ βιωτέον, ἐν τῇ πρώτῃ δὲ πολὺ πρῶτόν τε καὶ ἄριστον, πλὴν τῆς ἑβδόμης: πασῶν γὰρ ἐκείνην γε ἐκκριτέον, οἷον θεὸν ἐξ ἀνθρώπων, ἐκ τῶν ἄλλων πολιτειῶν. 
STRANGER:
The government of the few, which is intermediate between that of the one and many, is also intermediate in good and evil; but the government of the many is in every respect weak and unable to do either any great good or any great evil, when compared with the others, because the offices are too minutely subdivided and too many hold them. 
And this therefore is the worst of all lawful governments, and the best of all lawless ones. If they are all without the restraints of law, democracy is the form in which to live is best; if they are well ordered, then this is the last which you should choose, as royalty, the first form, is the best, with the exception of the seventh, for that excels them all, and is among States what God is among men. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται ταῦθ᾽ οὕτω συμβαίνειν τε καὶ γίγνεσθαι, καὶ ποιητέον ᾗπερ λέγεις. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
You are quite right, and we should choose that above all. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν δὴ καὶ τοὺς κοινωνοὺς τούτων τῶν πολιτειῶν (303c) πασῶν πλὴν τῆς ἐπιστήμονος ἀφαιρετέον ὡς οὐκ ὄντας πολιτικοὺς ἀλλὰ στασιαστικούς, καὶ εἰδώλων μεγίστων προστάτας ὄντας καὶ αὐτοὺς εἶναι τοιούτους, μεγίστους δὲ ὄντας μιμητὰς καὶ γόητας μεγίστους γίγνεσθαι τῶν σοφιστῶν σοφιστάς. 
STRANGER:
The members of all these States, with the exception of the one which has knowledge, may be set aside as being not Statesmen but partisans,--upholders of the most monstrous idols, and themselves idols; and, being the greatest imitators and magicians, they are also the greatest of Sophists. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύει τοῦτο εἰς τοὺς πολιτικοὺς λεγομένους περιεστράφθαι τὸ ῥῆμα ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
The name of Sophist after many windings in the argument appears to have been most justly fixed upon the politicians, as they are termed. 
Ξένος
εἶεν: τοῦτο μὲν ἀτεχνῶς ἡμῖν ὥσπερ δρᾶμα, καθάπερ ἐρρήθη νυνδὴ Κενταυρικὸν ὁρᾶσθαι καὶ Σατυρικόν τινα (303d) θίασον, ὃν δὴ χωριστέον ἀπὸ πολιτικῆς εἴη τέχνης: νῦν δ᾽ οὕτω πάνυ μόγις ἐχωρίσθη. 
STRANGER:
And so our satyric drama has been played out; and the troop of Centaurs and Satyrs, however unwilling to leave the stage, have at last been separated from the political science. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φαίνεται. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
So I perceive. 
Ξένος
τούτου δέ γ᾽ ἕτερον ἔτι χαλεπώτερον λείπεται τῷ συγγενές τε ὁμοῦ τ᾽ εἶναι μᾶλλον τῷ βασιλικῷ γένει καὶ δυσκαταμαθητότερον: καί μοι φαινόμεθα τοῖς τὸν χρυσὸν καθαίρουσι πάθος ὅμοιον πεπονθέναι. 
STRANGER:
There remain, however, natures still more troublesome, because they are more nearly akin to the king, and more difficult to discern; the examination of them may be compared to the process of refining gold. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is your meaning? 
Ξένος
Γῆν που καὶ λίθους καὶ πόλλ᾽ ἄττα ἕτερα ἀποκρίνουσι καὶ ἐκεῖνοι πρῶτον οἱ δημιουργοί: μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα (303e) λείπεται συμμεμειγμένα τὰ συγγενῆ τοῦ χρυσοῦ τίμια καὶ πυρὶ μόνον ἀφαιρετά, χαλκὸς καὶ ἄργυρος, ἔστι δ᾽ ὅτε καὶ ἀδάμας, ἃ μετὰ βασάνων ταῖς ἑψήσεσι μόγις ἀφαιρεθέντα τὸν λεγόμενον ἀκήρατον χρυσὸν εἴασεν ἡμᾶς ἰδεῖν αὐτὸν μόνον ἐφ᾽ ἑαυτοῦ. 
STRANGER:
The workmen begin by sifting away the earth and stones and the like; there remain in a confused mass the valuable elements akin to gold, which can only be separated by fire,--copper, silver, and other precious metal; these are at last refined away by the use of tests, until the gold is left quite pure. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγεται γὰρ οὖν δὴ ταῦτα οὕτω γίγνεσθαι. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes, that is the way in which these things are said to be done. 
Ξένος
κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τοίνυν λόγον ἔοικε καὶ νῦν ἡμῖν τὰ μὲν ἕτερα καὶ ὁπόσα ἀλλότρια καὶ τὰ μὴ φίλα πολιτικῆς ἐπιστήμης ἀποκεχωρίσθαι, λείπεσθαι δὲ τὰ τίμια καὶ συγγενῆ. 
τούτων δ᾽ ἐστί που στρατηγία καὶ δικαστικὴ καὶ ὅση (304a) βασιλικῇ κοινωνοῦσα ῥητορεία πείθουσα τὸ δίκαιον συνδιακυβερνᾷ τὰς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι πράξεις: ἃ δὴ τίνι τρόπῳ ῥᾷστά τις ἀπομερίζων δείξει γυμνὸν καὶ μόνον ἐκεῖνον καθ᾽ αὑτὸν τὸν ζητούμενον ὑφ᾽ ἡμῶν; 
STRANGER:
In like manner, all alien and uncongenial matter has been separated from political science, and what is precious and of a kindred nature has been left; 
there remain the nobler arts of the general and the judge, and the higher sort of oratory which is an ally of the royal art, and persuades men to do justice, and assists in guiding the helm of States:--How can we best clear away all these, leaving him whom we seek alone and unalloyed? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον ὅτι τοῦτό πῃ δρᾶν πειρατέον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is obviously what has in some way to be attempted. 
Ξένος
πείρας μὲν τοίνυν ἕνεκα φανερὸς ἔσται: διὰ δὲ μουσικῆς αὐτὸν ἐγχειρητέον δηλῶσαι. καί μοι λέγε. 
STRANGER:
If the attempt is all that is wanting, he shall certainly be brought to light; and I think that the illustration of music may assist in exhibiting him. Please to answer me a question. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What question? 
(304b) Ξένος
μουσικῆς ἔστι πού τις ἡμῖν μάθησις, καὶ ὅλως τῶν περὶ χειροτεχνίας ἐπιστημῶν; 
STRANGER:
There is such a thing as learning music or handicraft arts in general? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστιν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
There is. 
Ξένος
τί δέ; τὸ δ᾽ αὖ τούτων ἡντινοῦν εἴτε δεῖ μανθάνειν ἡμᾶς εἴτε μή, πότερα φήσομεν ἐπιστήμην αὖ καὶ ταύτην εἶναί τινα περὶ αὐτὰ ταῦτα, ἢ πῶς; 
STRANGER:
And is there any higher art or science, having power to decide which of these arts are and are not to be learned;--what do you say? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὕτως, εἶναι φήσομεν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I should answer that there is. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἑτέραν ὁμολογήσομεν ἐκείνων εἶναι ταύτην; 
STRANGER:
And do we acknowledge this science to be different from the others? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
πότερα δὲ αὐτῶν οὐδεμίαν ἄρχειν δεῖν ἄλλην ἄλλης, (304c) ἢ ἐκείνας ταύτης, ἢ ταύτην δεῖν ἐπιτροπεύουσαν ἄρχειν συμπασῶν τῶν ἄλλων; 
STRANGER:
And ought the other sciences to be superior to this, or no single science to any other? Or ought this science to be the overseer and governor of all the others? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ταύτην ἐκείνων. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
The latter. 
Ξένος
τὴν εἰ δεῖ μανθάνειν ἢ μὴ τῆς μανθανομένης καὶ διδασκούσης ἄρα σύ γε ἀποφαίνῃ δεῖν ἡμῖν ἄρχειν; 
STRANGER:
You mean to say that the science which judges whether we ought to learn or not, must be superior to the science which is learned or which teaches? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
σφόδρα γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Far superior. 
Ξένος
καὶ τὴν εἰ δεῖ πείθειν ἄρα ἢ μὴ τῆς δυναμένης πείθειν; 
STRANGER:
And the science which determines whether we ought to persuade or not, must be superior to the science which is able to persuade? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Of course. 
Ξένος
εἶεν: τίνι τὸ πειστικὸν οὖν ἀποδώσομεν ἐπιστήμῃ (304d) πλήθους τε καὶ ὄχλου διὰ μυθολογίας ἀλλὰ μὴ διὰ διδαχῆς; 
STRANGER:
Very good; and to what science do we assign the power of persuading a multitude by a pleasing tale and not by teaching? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φανερὸν οἶμαι καὶ τοῦτο ῥητορικῇ δοτέον ὄν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That power, I think, must clearly be assigned to rhetoric. 
Ξένος
τὸ δ᾽ εἴτε διὰ πειθοῦς εἴτε καὶ διά τινος βίας δεῖ πράττειν πρός τινας ὁτιοῦν ἢ καὶ τὸ παράπαν ἡσυχίαν ἔχειν, τοῦτ᾽ αὖ ποίᾳ προσθήσομεν ἐπιστήμῃ; 
STRANGER:
And to what science do we give the power of determining whether we are to employ persuasion or force towards any one, or to refrain altogether? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τῇ τῆς πειστικῆς ἀρχούσῃ καὶ λεκτικῆς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To that science which governs the arts of speech and persuasion. 
Ξένος
εἴη δ᾽ ἂν οὐκ ἄλλη τις, ὡς οἶμαι, πλὴν ἡ τοῦ πολιτικοῦ δύναμις. 
STRANGER:
Which, if I am not mistaken, will be politics? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κάλλιστ᾽ εἴρηκας. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ἔοικε ταχὺ κεχωρίσθαι πολιτικῆς τὸ (304e) ῥητορικόν, ὡς ἕτερον εἶδος ὄν, ὑπηρετοῦν μὴν ταύτῃ. 
STRANGER:
Rhetoric seems to be quickly distinguished from politics, being a different species, yet ministering to it. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
τί δὲ περὶ τῆς τοιᾶσδ᾽ αὖ δυνάμεως διανοητέον; 
STRANGER:
But what would you think of another sort of power or science? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποίας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What science? 
Ξένος
τῆς ὡς πολεμητέον ἑκάστοις οἷς ἂν προελώμεθα πολεμεῖν, εἴτε αὐτὴν ἄτεχνον εἴτε ἔντεχνον ἐροῦμεν; 
STRANGER:
The science which has to do with military operations against our enemies--is that to be regarded as a science or not? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ πῶς ἂν ἄτεχνον διανοηθεῖμεν, ἥν γε ἡ στρατηγικὴ καὶ πᾶσα ἡ πολεμικὴ πρᾶξις πράττει; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How can generalship and military tactics be regarded as other than a science? 
Ξένος
τὴν δὲ εἴτε πολεμητέον εἴτε διὰ φιλίας ἀπαλλακτέον οἵαν τε καὶ ἐπιστήμονα διαβουλεύσασθαι, ταύτης ἑτέραν ὑπολάβωμεν ἢ τὴν αὐτὴν ταύτῃ; 
STRANGER:
And is the art which is able and knows how to advise when we are to go to war, or to make peace, the same as this or different? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τοῖς πρόσθεν ἀναγκαῖον ἑπομένοισιν ἑτέραν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
If we are to be consistent, we must say different. 
(305a) Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ἄρχουσαν ταύτης αὐτὴν ἀποφανούμεθα, εἴπερ τοῖς ἔμπροσθέν γε ὑποληψόμεθα ὁμοίως; 
STRANGER:
And we must also suppose that this rules the other, if we are not to give up our former notion? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
φημί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τίν᾽ οὖν ποτε καὶ ἐπιχειρήσομεν οὕτω δεινῆς καὶ μεγάλης τέχνης συμπάσης τῆς πολεμικῆς δεσπότιν ἀποφαίνεσθαι πλήν γε δὴ τὴν ὄντως οὖσαν βασιλικήν; 
STRANGER:
And, considering how great and terrible the whole art of war is, can we imagine any which is superior to it but the truly royal? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδεμίαν ἄλλην. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
No other. 
Ξένος
οὐκ ἄρα πολιτικὴν θήσομεν, ὑπηρετικήν γε οὖσαν, τὴν τῶν στρατηγῶν ἐπιστήμην. 
STRANGER:
The art of the general is only ministerial, and therefore not political? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκ εἰκός. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Exactly. 
(305b) Ξένος
ἴθι δή, καὶ τὴν τῶν δικαστῶν τῶν ὀρθῶς δικαζόντων θεασώμεθα δύναμιν. 
STRANGER:
Once more let us consider the nature of the righteous judge. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very good. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν ἐπὶ πλέον τι δύναται τοῦ περὶ τὰ συμβόλαια πάνθ᾽ ὁπόσα κεῖται νόμιμα παρὰ νομοθέτου βασιλέως παραλαβοῦσα, κρίνειν εἰς ἐκεῖνα σκοποῦσα τά τε δίκαια ταχθέντ᾽ εἶναι καὶ ἄδικα, τὴν αὑτῆς ἰδίαν ἀρετὴν παρεχομένη τοῦ μήθ᾽ ὑπό τινων δώρων μήθ᾽ ὑπὸ φόβων μήτε οἴκτων μήθ᾽ (305c) ὑπό τινος ἄλλης ἔχθρας μηδὲ φιλίας ἡττηθεῖσα παρὰ τὴν τοῦ νομοθέτου τάξιν ἐθέλειν ἂν τἀλλήλων ἐγκλήματα διαιρεῖν; 
STRANGER:
Does he do anything but decide the dealings of men with one another to be just or unjust in accordance with the standard which he receives from the king and legislator,--showing his own peculiar virtue only in this, that he is not perverted by gifts, or fears, or pity, or by any sort of favour or enmity, into deciding the suits of men with one another contrary to the appointment of the legislator? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὔκ, ἀλλὰ σχεδὸν ὅσον εἴρηκας ταύτης ἐστὶ τῆς δυνάμεως ἔργον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
No; his office is such as you describe. 
Ξένος
καὶ τὴν τῶν δικαστῶν ἄρα ῥώμην ἀνευρίσκομεν οὐ βασιλικὴν οὖσαν ἀλλὰ νόμων φύλακα καὶ ὑπηρέτιν ἐκείνης. 
STRANGER:
Then the inference is that the power of the judge is not royal, but only the power of a guardian of the law which ministers to the royal power? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔοικέν γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τόδε δὴ κατανοητέον ἰδόντι συναπάσας τὰς ἐπιστήμας αἳ εἴρηνται, ὅτι πολιτική γε αὐτῶν οὐδεμία ἀνεφάνη. (305d) τὴν γὰρ ὄντως οὖσαν βασιλικὴν οὐκ αὐτὴν δεῖ πράττειν ἀλλ᾽ ἄρχειν τῶν δυναμένων πράττειν, γιγνώσκουσαν τὴν ἀρχήν τε καὶ ὁρμὴν τῶν μεγίστων ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν ἐγκαιρίας τε πέρι καὶ ἀκαιρίας, τὰς δ᾽ ἄλλας τὰ προσταχθέντα δρᾶν. 
STRANGER:
The review of all these sciences shows that none of them is political or royal. For the truly royal ought not itself to act, but to rule over those who are able to act; the king ought to know what is and what is not a fitting opportunity for taking the initiative in matters of the greatest importance, whilst others should execute his orders. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
διὰ ταῦτα ἄρα ἃς μὲν ἄρτι διεληλύθαμεν, οὔτ᾽ ἀλλήλων οὔθ᾽ αὑτῶν ἄρχουσαι, περὶ δέ τινα ἰδίαν αὑτῆς οὖσα ἑκάστη πρᾶξιν, κατὰ τὴν ἰδιότητα τῶν πράξεων τοὔνομα δικαίως εἴληφεν ἴδιον. (305e) 
STRANGER:
And, therefore, the arts which we have described, as they have no authority over themselves or one another, but are each of them concerned with some special action of their own, have, as they ought to have, special names corresponding to their several actions. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
εἴξασι γοῦν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I agree. 
Ξένος
τὴν δὲ πασῶν τε τούτων ἄρχουσαν καὶ τῶν νόμων καὶ συμπάντων τῶν κατὰ πόλιν ἐπιμελουμένην καὶ πάντα συνυφαίνουσαν ὀρθότατα, τοῦ κοινοῦ τῇ κλήσει περιλαβόντες τὴν δύναμιν αὐτῆς, προσαγορεύοιμεν δικαιότατ᾽ ἄν, ὡς ἔοικε, πολιτικήν. 
STRANGER:
And the science which is over them all, and has charge of the laws, and of all matters affecting the State, and truly weaves them all into one, if we would describe under a name characteristic of their common nature, most truly we may call politics. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Exactly so. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν δὴ καὶ κατὰ τὸ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς παράδειγμα βουλοίμεθ᾽ ἂν ἐπεξελθεῖν αὐτὴν νῦν, ὅτε καὶ πάντα τὰ γένη τὰ κατὰ πόλιν δῆλα ἡμῖν γέγονε; 
STRANGER:
Then, now that we have discovered the various classes in a State, shall I analyse politics after the pattern which weaving supplied? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ σφόδρα γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I greatly wish that you would. 
(306a) Ξένος
τὴν δὴ βασιλικὴν συμπλοκήν, ὡς ἔοικε, λεκτέον ποία τέ ἐστι καὶ τίνι τρόπῳ συμπλέκουσα ποῖον ἡμῖν ὕφασμα ἀποδίδωσιν. 
STRANGER:
Then I must describe the nature of the royal web, and show how the various threads are woven into one piece. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δῆλον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Clearly. 
Ξένος
ἦ χαλεπὸν ἐνδείξασθαι πρᾶγμα ἀναγκαῖον ἄρα γέγονεν, ὡς φαίνεται. 
STRANGER:
A task has to be accomplished, which, although difficult, appears to be necessary. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάντως γε μὴν ῥητέον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly the attempt must be made. 
Ξένος
τὸ γὰρ ἀρετῆς μέρος ἀρετῆς εἴδει διάφορον εἶναί τινα τρόπον τοῖς περὶ λόγους ἀμφισβητητικοῖς καὶ μάλ᾽ εὐεπίθετον πρὸς τὰς τῶν πολλῶν δόξας. 
STRANGER:
To assume that one part of virtue differs in kind from another, is a position easily assailable by contentious disputants, who appeal to popular opinion. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐκ ἔμαθον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I do not understand. 
Ξένος
ἀλλ᾽ ὧδε πάλιν. ἀνδρείαν γὰρ οἶμαί σε ἡγεῖσθαι (306b) μέρος ἓν ἀρετῆς ἡμῖν εἶναι. 
STRANGER:
Let me put the matter in another way: I suppose that you would consider courage to be a part of virtue? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly I should. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν σωφροσύνην γε ἀνδρείας μὲν ἕτερον, ἓν δ᾽ οὖν καὶ τοῦτο μόριον ἧς κἀκεῖνο. 
STRANGER:
And you would think temperance to be different from courage; and likewise to be a part of virtue? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τούτων δὴ πέρι θαυμαστόν τινα λόγον ἀποφαίνεσθαι τολμητέον. 
STRANGER:
I shall venture to put forward a strange theory about them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
Ξένος
ὡς ἐστὸν κατὰ δή τινα τρόπον εὖ μάλα πρὸς ἀλλήλας ἔχθραν καὶ στάσιν ἐναντίαν ἔχοντε ἐν πολλοῖς τῶν ὄντων. 
STRANGER:
That they are two principles which thoroughly hate one another and are antagonistic throughout a great part of nature. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How singular! 
Ξένος
οὐκ εἰωθότα λόγον οὐδαμῶς: πάντα γὰρ οὖν δὴ (306c) ἀλλήλοις τά γε τῆς ἀρετῆς μόρια λέγεταί που φίλια. 
STRANGER:
Yes, very--for all the parts of virtue are commonly said to be friendly to one another. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes. 
Ξένος
σκοπῶμεν δὴ προσσχόντες τὸν νοῦν εὖ μάλα πότερον οὕτως ἁπλοῦν ἐστι τοῦτο, ἢ παντὸς μᾶλλον αὐτῶν ἔχει διαφορὰν τοῖς συγγενέσιν ἔς τι; 
STRANGER:
Then let us carefully investigate whether this is universally true, or whether there are not parts of virtue which are at war with their kindred in some respect. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί, λέγοις ἂν πῇ σκεπτέον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Tell me how we shall consider that question. 
Ξένος
ἐν τοῖς σύμπασι χρὴ ζητεῖν ὅσα καλὰ μὲν λέγομεν, εἰς δύο δὲ αὐτὰ τίθεμεν ἐναντία ἀλλήλων εἴδη. 
STRANGER:
We must extend our enquiry to all those things which we consider beautiful and at the same time place in two opposite classes. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγ᾽ ἔτι σαφέστερον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Explain; what are they? 
Ξένος
ὀξύτητα καὶ τάχος, εἴτε κατὰ σώματα εἴτ᾽ ἐν (306d) ψυχαῖς εἴτε κατὰ φωνῆς φοράν, εἴτε αὐτῶν τούτων εἴτε ἐν εἰδώλοις ὄντων, ὁπόσα μουσικὴ μιμουμένη καὶ ἔτι γραφικὴ μιμήματα παρέχεται, τούτων τινὸς ἐπαινέτης εἴτε αὐτὸς πώποτε γέγονας εἴτε ἄλλου παρὼν ἐπαινοῦντος ᾔσθησαι; 
STRANGER:
Acuteness and quickness, whether in body or soul or in the movement of sound, and the imitations of them which painting and music supply, you must have praised yourself before now, or been present when others praised them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
ἦ καὶ μνήμην ἔχεις ὅντινα τρόπον αὐτὸ δρῶσιν ἐν ἑκάστοις τούτων; 
STRANGER:
And do you remember the terms in which they are praised? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I do not. 
Ξένος
ἆρ᾽ οὖν δυνατὸς αὐτὸ ἂν γενοίμην, ὥσπερ καὶ διανοοῦμαι, διὰ λόγων ἐνδείξασθαί σοι; 
STRANGER:
I wonder whether I can explain to you in words the thought which is passing in my mind. 
(306e) Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Why not? 
Ξένος
ῥᾴδιον ἔοικας ἡγεῖσθαι τὸ τοιοῦτον: σκοπώμεθα δ᾽ οὖν αὐτὸ ἐν τοῖς ὑπεναντίοις γένεσι. 
τῶν γὰρ δὴ πράξεων ἐν πολλαῖς καὶ πολλάκις ἑκάστοτε τάχος καὶ σφοδρότητα καὶ ὀξύτητα διανοήσεώς τε καὶ σώματος, ἔτι δὲ καὶ φωνῆς, ὅταν ἀγασθῶμεν, λέγομεν αὐτὸ ἐπαινοῦντες μιᾷ χρώμενοι προσρήσει τῇ τῆς ἀνδρείας. 
STRANGER:
You fancy that this is all so easy: Well, let us consider these notions with reference to the opposite classes of action under which they fall. 
When we praise quickness and energy and acuteness, whether of mind or body or sound, we express our praise of the quality which we admire by one word, and that one word is manliness or courage. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How? 
Ξένος
ὀξὺ καὶ ἀνδρεῖον πρῶτόν πού φαμεν, καὶ ταχὺ καὶ ἀνδρικόν, καὶ σφοδρὸν ὡσαύτως: καὶ πάντως ἐπιφέροντες τοὔνομα ὃ λέγω κοινὸν πάσαις ταῖς φύσεσι ταύταις ἐπαινοῦμεν αὐτάς. 
STRANGER:
We speak of an action as energetic and brave, quick and manly, and vigorous too; and when we apply the name of which I speak as the common attribute of all these natures, we certainly praise them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ναί. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
(307a) Ξένος
τί δέ; τὸ τῆς ἠρεμαίας αὖ γενέσεως εἶδος ἆρ᾽ οὐ πολλάκις ἐπῃνέκαμεν ἐν πολλαῖς τῶν πράξεων; 
STRANGER:
And do we not often praise the quiet strain of action also? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ σφόδρα γε. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To be sure. 
Ξένος
μῶν οὖν οὐ τἀναντία λέγοντες ἢ περὶ ἐκείνων τοῦτο φθεγγόμεθα; 
STRANGER:
And do we not then say the opposite of what we said of the other? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How do you mean? 
Ξένος
ὡς ἡσυχαῖά πού φαμεν ἑκάστοτε καὶ σωφρονικά, περί τε διάνοιαν πραττόμενα ἀγασθέντες καὶ κατὰ τὰς πράξεις αὖ βραδέα καὶ μαλακά, καὶ ἔτι περὶ φωνὰς γιγνόμενα λεῖα καὶ βαρέα, καὶ πᾶσαν ῥυθμικὴν κίνησιν καὶ ὅλην (307b) μοῦσαν ἐν καιρῷ βραδυτῆτι προσχρωμένην, οὐ τὸ τῆς ἀνδρείας ἀλλὰ τὸ τῆς κοσμιότητος ὄνομα ἐπιφέρομεν αὐτοῖς σύμπασιν. 
STRANGER:
We exclaim How calm! How temperate! in admiration of the slow and quiet working of the intellect, and of steadiness and gentleness in action, of smoothness and depth of voice, and of all rhythmical movement and of music in general, when these have a proper solemnity. Of all such actions we predicate not courage, but a name indicative of order. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
καὶ μὴν ὁπόταν αὖ γε ἀμφότερα γίγνηται ταῦθ᾽ ἡμῖν ἄκαιρα, μεταβάλλοντες ἑκάτερα αὐτῶν ψέγομεν ἐπὶ τἀναντία πάλιν ἀπονέμοντες τοῖς ὀνόμασιν. 
STRANGER:
But when, on the other hand, either of these is out of place, the names of either are changed into terms of censure. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How so? 
Ξένος
ὀξύτερα μὲν αὐτὰ γιγνόμενα τοῦ καιροῦ καὶ θάττω καὶ σκληρότερα φαινόμενα καὶ ὑβριστικὰ καὶ μανικὰ λέγοντες, (307c) τὰ δὲ βαρύτερα καὶ βραδύτερα καὶ μαλακώτερα δειλὰ καὶ βλακικά: 
καὶ σχεδὸν ὡς τὸ πολὺ ταῦτά τε καὶ τὴν σώφρονα φύσιν καὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν τὴν τῶν ἐναντίων, οἷον πολεμίαν διαλαχούσας στάσιν ἰδέας, οὔτ᾽ ἀλλήλαις μειγνυμένας ἐφευρίσκομεν ἐν ταῖς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πράξεσιν, ἔτι τε τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ψυχαῖς αὐτὰς ἴσχοντας διαφερομένους ἀλλήλοις ὀψόμεθα ἐὰν μεταδιώκωμεν. 
STRANGER:
Too great sharpness or quickness or hardness is termed violence or madness; too great slowness or gentleness is called cowardice or sluggishness; 
and we may observe, that for the most part these qualities, and the temperance and manliness of the opposite characters, are arrayed as enemies on opposite sides, and do not mingle with one another in their respective actions; and if we pursue the enquiry, we shall find that men who have these different qualities of mind differ from one another. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῦ δὴ λέγεις; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
In what respect? 
Ξένος
ἐν πᾶσί τε δὴ τούτοις οἷς νῦν εἴπομεν, ὡς εἰκός (307d) τε ἐν ἑτέροις πολλοῖς. κατὰ γὰρ οἶμαι τὴν αὑτῶν ἑκατέροις συγγένειαν τὰ μὲν ἐπαινοῦντες ὡς οἰκεῖα σφέτερα, τὰ δὲ τῶν διαφόρων ψέγοντες ὡς ἀλλότρια, πολλὴν εἰς ἔχθραν ἀλλήλοις καὶ πολλῶν πέρι καθίστανται. 
STRANGER:
In respect of all the qualities which I mentioned, and very likely of many others. According to their respective affinities to either class of actions they distribute praise and blame,--praise to the actions which are akin to their own, blame to those of the opposite party--and out of this many quarrels and occasions of quarrel arise among them. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύουσιν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
παιδιὰ τοίνυν αὕτη γέ τις ἡ διαφορὰ τούτων ἐστὶ τῶν εἰδῶν: περὶ δὲ τὰ μέγιστα νόσος συμβαίνει πασῶν ἐχθίστη γίγνεσθαι ταῖς πόλεσιν. 
STRANGER:
The difference between the two classes is often a trivial concern; but in a state, and when affecting really important matters, becomes of all disorders the most hateful. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
περὶ δὴ ποῖα φῄς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To what do you refer? 
(307e) Ξένος
περὶ ὅλην, ὥς γε εἰκός, τὴν τοῦ ζῆν παρασκευήν. οἱ μὲν γὰρ δὴ διαφερόντως ὄντες κόσμιοι τὸν ἥσυχον ἀεὶ βίον ἕτοιμοι ζῆν, αὐτοὶ καθ᾽ αὑτοὺς μόνοι τὰ σφέτερα αὐτῶν πράττοντες, οἴκοι τε αὖ πρὸς ἅπαντας οὕτως ὁμιλοῦντες, καὶ πρὸς τὰς ἔξωθεν πόλεις ὡσαύτως ἕτοιμοι πάντα ὄντες τρόπον τινὰ ἄγειν εἰρήνην: 
καὶ διὰ τὸν ἔρωτα δὴ τοῦτον ἀκαιρότερον ὄντα ἢ χρή, ὅταν ἃ βούλονται πράττωσιν, ἔλαθον αὐτοί τε ἀπολέμως ἴσχοντες καὶ τοὺς νέους ὡσαύτως διατιθέντες, ὄντες τε ἀεὶ τῶν ἐπιτιθεμένων, ἐξ ὧν οὐκ ἐν πολλοῖς ἔτεσιν αὐτοὶ καὶ παῖδες καὶ σύμπασα ἡ (308a) πόλις ἀντ᾽ ἐλευθέρων πολλάκις ἔλαθον αὑτοὺς γενόμενοι δοῦλοι. 
STRANGER:
To nothing short of the whole regulation of human life. For the orderly class are always ready to lead a peaceful life, quietly doing their own business; this is their manner of behaving with all men at home, and they are equally ready to find some way of keeping the peace with foreign States. 
And on account of this fondness of theirs for peace, which is often out of season where their influence prevails, they become by degrees unwarlike, and bring up their young men to be like themselves; they are at the mercy of their enemies; whence in a few years they and their children and the whole city often pass imperceptibly from the condition of freemen into that of slaves. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
χαλεπὸν εἶπες καὶ δεινὸν πάθος. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What a cruel fate! 
Ξένος
τί δ᾽ οἱ πρὸς τὴν ἀνδρείαν μᾶλλον ῥέποντες; ἆρ᾽ οὐκ ἐπὶ πόλεμον ἀεί τινα τὰς αὑτῶν συντείνοντες πόλεις διὰ τὴν τοῦ τοιούτου βίου σφοδροτέραν τοῦ δέοντος ἐπιθυμίαν εἰς ἔχθραν πολλοῖς καὶ δυνατοῖς καταστάντες ἢ πάμπαν διώλεσαν ἢ δούλας αὖ καὶ ὑποχειρίους τοῖς ἐχθροῖς ὑπέθεσαν τὰς αὑτῶν πατρίδας; (308b) 
STRANGER:
And now think of what happens with the more courageous natures. Are they not always inciting their country to go to war, owing to their excessive love of the military life? they raise up enemies against themselves many and mighty, and either utterly ruin their native-land or enslave and subject it to its foes? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἔστι καὶ ταῦτα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That, again, is true. 
Ξένος
πῶς οὖν μὴ φῶμεν ἐν τούτοις ἀμφότερα ταῦτα τὰ γένη πολλὴν πρὸς ἄλληλα ἀεὶ καὶ τὴν μεγίστην ἴσχειν ἔχθραν καὶ στάσιν; 
STRANGER:
Must we not admit, then, that where these two classes exist, they always feel the greatest antipathy and antagonism towards one another? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδαμῶς ὡς οὐ φήσομεν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
We cannot deny it. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν ὅπερ ἐπεσκοποῦμεν κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς ἀνηυρήκαμεν, ὅτι μόρια ἀρετῆς οὐ σμικρὰ ἀλλήλοις διαφέρεσθον φύσει καὶ δὴ καὶ τοὺς ἴσχοντας δρᾶτον τὸ αὐτὸ τοῦτο; 
STRANGER:
And returning to the enquiry with which we began, have we not found that considerable portions of virtue are at variance with one another, and give rise to a similar opposition in the characters who are endowed with them? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κινδυνεύετον. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
True. 
Ξένος
τόδε τοίνυν αὖ λάβωμεν. 
STRANGER:
Let us consider a further point. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ ποῖον; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
What is it? 
(308c) Ξένος
εἴ τίς που τῶν συνθετικῶν ἐπιστημῶν πρᾶγμα ὁτιοῦν τῶν αὑτῆς ἔργων, κἂν εἰ τὸ φαυλότατον, ἑκοῦσα ἐκ μοχθηρῶν καὶ χρηστῶν τινων συνίστησιν, ἢ πᾶσα ἐπιστήμη πανταχοῦ τὰ μὲν μοχθηρὰ εἰς δύναμιν ἀποβάλλει, τὰ δὲ ἐπιτήδεια καὶ τὰ χρηστὰ ἔλαβεν, ἐκ τούτων δὲ καὶ ὁμοίων καὶ ἀνομοίων ὄντων, πάντα εἰς ἓν αὐτὰ συνάγουσα, μίαν τινὰ δύναμιν καὶ ἰδέαν δημιουργεῖ. 
STRANGER:
I want to know, whether any constructive art will make any, even the most trivial thing, out of bad and good materials indifferently, if this can be helped? does not all art rather reject the bad as far as possible, and accept the good and fit materials, and from these elements, whether like or unlike, gathering them all into one, work out some nature or idea? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί μήν; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
To, be sure. 
(308d) Ξένος
οὐδ᾽ ἄρα ἡ κατὰ φύσιν ἀληθῶς οὖσα ἡμῖν πολιτικὴ μή ποτε ἐκ χρηστῶν καὶ κακῶν ἀνθρώπων ἑκοῦσα εἶναι συστήσηται πόλιν τινά, ἀλλ᾽ εὔδηλον ὅτι παιδιᾷ πρῶτον βασανιεῖ, μετὰ δὲ τὴν βάσανον αὖ τοῖς δυναμένοις παιδεύειν καὶ ὑπηρετεῖν πρὸς τοῦτ᾽ αὐτὸ παραδώσει, προστάττουσα καὶ ἐπιστατοῦσα αὐτή, καθάπερ ὑφαντικὴ τοῖς τε ξαίνουσι καὶ τοῖς τἆλλα προπαρασκευάζουσιν ὅσα πρὸς τὴν πλέξιν αὐτῆς συμπαρακολουθοῦσα προστάττει καὶ ἐπιστατεῖ, τοιαῦτα (308e) ἑκάστοις ἐνδεικνῦσα τὰ ἔργα ἀποτελεῖν οἷα ἂν ἐπιτήδεια ἡγῆται πρὸς τὴν αὑτῆς εἶναι συμπλοκήν. 
STRANGER:
Then the true and natural art of statesmanship will never allow any State to be formed by a combination of good and bad men, if this can be avoided; but will begin by testing human natures in play, and after testing them, will entrust them to proper teachers who are the ministers of her purposes--she will herself give orders, and maintain authority; just as the art of weaving continually gives orders and maintains authority over the carders and all the others who prepare the material for the work, commanding the subsidiary arts to execute the works which she deems necessary for making the web. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
ταὐτὸν δή μοι τοῦθ᾽ ἡ βασιλικὴ φαίνεται πᾶσι τοῖς κατὰ νόμον παιδευταῖς καὶ τροφεῦσιν, τὴν τῆς ἐπιστατικῆς αὐτὴ δύναμιν ἔχουσα, οὐκ ἐπιτρέψειν ἀσκεῖν ὅτι μή τις πρὸς τὴν αὑτῆς σύγκρασιν ἀπεργαζόμενος ἦθός τι πρέπον ἀποτελεῖ, ταῦτα δὲ μόνα παρακελεύεσθαι παιδεύειν: καὶ τοὺς μὲν μὴ δυναμένους κοινωνεῖν ἤθους ἀνδρείου καὶ σώφρονος ὅσα τε ἄλλα ἐστὶ τείνοντα πρὸς ἀρετήν, ἀλλ᾽ εἰς (309a) ἀθεότητα καὶ ὕβριν καὶ ἀδικίαν ὑπὸ κακῆς βίᾳ φύσεως ἀπωθουμένους, θανάτοις τε ἐκβάλλει καὶ φυγαῖς καὶ ταῖς μεγίσταις κολάζουσα ἀτιμίαις. 
STRANGER:
In like manner, the royal science appears to me to be the mistress of all lawful educators and instructors, and having this queenly power, will not permit them to train men in what will produce characters unsuited to the political constitution which she desires to create, but only in what will produce such as are suitable. Those which have no share of manliness and temperance, or any other virtuous inclination, and, from the necessity of an evil nature, are violently carried away to godlessness and insolence and injustice, she gets rid of by death and exile, and punishes them with the greatest of disgraces. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
λέγεται γοῦν πως οὕτως. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That is commonly said. 
Ξένος
τοὺς δὲ ἐν ἀμαθίᾳ τε αὖ καὶ ταπεινότητι πολλῇ κυλινδουμένους εἰς τὸ δουλικὸν ὑποζεύγνυσι γένος. 
STRANGER:
But those who are wallowing in ignorance and baseness she bows under the yoke of slavery. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite right. 
Ξένος
τοὺς λοιποὺς τοίνυν, ὅσων αἱ φύσεις ἐπὶ τὸ γενναῖον (309b) ἱκαναὶ παιδείας τυγχάνουσαι καθίστασθαι καὶ δέξασθαι μετὰ τέχνης σύμμειξιν πρὸς ἀλλήλας, τούτων τὰς μὲν ἐπὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν μᾶλλον συντεινούσας, οἷον στημονοφυὲς νομίσασ᾽ αὐτῶν εἶναι τὸ στερεὸν ἦθος, τὰς δὲ ἐπὶ τὸ κόσμιον πίονί τε καὶ μαλακῷ καὶ κατὰ τὴν εἰκόνα κροκώδει διανήματι προσχρωμένας, ἐναντία δὲ τεινούσας ἀλλήλαις, πειρᾶται τοιόνδε τινὰ τρόπον συνδεῖν καὶ συμπλέκειν. 
STRANGER:
The rest of the citizens, out of whom, if they have education, something noble may be made, and who are capable of being united by the statesman, the kingly art blends and weaves together; taking on the one hand those whose natures tend rather to courage, which is the stronger element and may be regarded as the warp, and on the other hand those which incline to order and gentleness, and which are represented in the figure as spun thick and soft, after the manner of the woof--these, which are naturally opposed, she seeks to bind and weave together in the following manner: 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ποῖον δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
In what manner? 
(309c) Ξένος
πρῶτον μὲν κατὰ τὸ συγγενὲς τὸ ἀειγενὲς ὂν τῆς ψυχῆς αὐτῶν μέρος θείῳ συναρμοσαμένη δεσμῷ, μετὰ δὲ τὸ θεῖον τὸ ζῳογενὲς αὐτῶν αὖθις ἀνθρωπίνοις. 
STRANGER:
First of all, she takes the eternal element of the soul and binds it with a divine cord, to which it is akin, and then the animal nature, and binds that with human cords. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς τοῦτ᾽ εἶπες αὖ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
I do not understand what you mean. 
Ξένος
τὴν τῶν καλῶν καὶ δικαίων πέρι καὶ ἀγαθῶν καὶ τῶν τούτοις ἐναντίων ὄντως οὖσαν ἀληθῆ δόξαν μετὰ βεβαιώσεως, ὁπόταν ἐν ταῖς ψυχαῖς ἐγγίγνηται, θείαν φημὶ ἐν δαιμονίῳ γίγνεσθαι γένει. 
STRANGER:
The meaning is, that the opinion about the honourable and the just and good and their opposites, which is true and confirmed by reason, is a divine principle, and when implanted in the soul, is implanted, as I maintain, in a nature of heavenly birth. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πρέπει γοῦν οὕτω. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Yes; what else should it be? 
(309d) Ξένος
τὸν δὴ πολιτικὸν καὶ τὸν ἀγαθὸν νομοθέτην ἆρ᾽ ἴσμεν ὅτι προσήκει μόνον δυνατὸν εἶναι τῇ τῆς βασιλικῆς μούσῃ τοῦτο αὐτὸ ἐμποιεῖν τοῖς ὀρθῶς μεταλαβοῦσι παιδείας, οὓς ἐλέγομεν νυνδή; 
STRANGER:
Only the Statesman and the good legislator, having the inspiration of the royal muse, can implant this opinion, and he, only in the rightly educated, whom we were just now describing. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τὸ γοῦν εἰκός. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Likely enough. 
Ξένος
ὃς δ᾽ ἂν δρᾶν γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀδυνατῇ τὸ τοιοῦτον, μηδέποτε τοῖς νῦν ζητουμένοις ὀνόμασιν αὐτὸν προσαγορεύωμεν. 
STRANGER:
But him who cannot, we will not designate by any of the names which are the subject of the present enquiry. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ὀρθότατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very right. 
Ξένος
τί οὖν; ἀνδρεία ψυχὴ λαμβανομένη τῆς τοιαύτης (309e) ἀληθείας ἆρ᾽ οὐχ ἡμεροῦται καὶ τῶν δικαίων μάλιστα οὕτω κοινωνεῖν ἂν ἐθελήσειεν, μὴ μεταλαβοῦσα δὲ ἀποκλινεῖ μᾶλλον πρὸς θηριώδη τινὰ φύσιν; 
STRANGER:
The courageous soul when attaining this truth becomes civilized, and rendered more capable of partaking of justice; but when not partaking, is inclined to brutality. Is not that true? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly. 
Ξένος
τί δὲ τὸ τῆς κοσμίας φύσεως; ἆρ᾽ οὐ τούτων μὲν μεταλαβὸν τῶν δοξῶν ὄντως σῶφρον καὶ φρόνιμον, ὥς γε ἐν πολιτείᾳ, γίγνεται, μὴ κοινωνῆσαν δὲ ὧν λέγομεν ἐπονείδιστόν τινα εὐηθείας δικαιότατα λαμβάνει φήμην; 
STRANGER:
And again, the peaceful and orderly nature, if sharing in these opinions, becomes temperate and wise, as far as this may be in a State, but if not, deservedly obtains the ignominious name of silliness. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πάνυ μὲν οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
οὐκοῦν συμπλοκὴν καὶ δεσμὸν τοῦτον τοῖς μὲν κακοῖς πρὸς σφᾶς αὐτοὺς καὶ τοῖς ἀγαθοῖς πρὸς τοὺς κακοὺς μηδέποτε μόνιμον φῶμεν γίγνεσθαι, μηδέ τινα ἐπιστήμην αὐτῷ σπουδῇ πρὸς τοὺς τοιούτους ἂν χρῆσθαί ποτε; 
STRANGER:
Can we say that such a connexion as this will lastingly unite the evil with one another or with the good, or that any science would seriously think of using a bond of this kind to join such materials? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γάρ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Impossible. 
(310a) Ξένος
τοῖς δ᾽ εὐγενέσι γενομένοις τε ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἤθεσι θρεφθεῖσί τε κατὰ φύσιν μόνοις διὰ νόμων ἐμφύεσθαι, καὶ ἐπὶ τούτοις δὴ τοῦτ᾽ εἶναι τέχνῃ φάρμακον, καὶ καθάπερ εἴπομεν τοῦτον θειότερον εἶναι τὸν σύνδεσμον ἀρετῆς μερῶν φύσεως ἀνομοίων καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἐναντία φερομένων. 
STRANGER:
But in those who were originally of a noble nature, and who have been nurtured in noble ways, and in those only, may we not say that union is implanted by law, and that this is the medicine which art prescribes for them, and of all the bonds which unite the dissimilar and contrary parts of virtue is not this, as I was saying, the divinest? 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
ἀληθέστατα. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Very true. 
Ξένος
τοὺς μὴν λοιπούς, ὄντας ἀνθρωπίνους δεσμούς, ὑπάρχοντος τούτου τοῦ θείου σχεδὸν οὐδὲν χαλεπὸν οὔτε ἐννοεῖν οὔτε ἐννοήσαντα ἀποτελεῖν. (310b) 
STRANGER:
Where this divine bond exists there is no difficulty in imagining, or when you have imagined, in creating the other bonds, which are human only. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς δή, καὶ τίνας; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How is that, and what bonds do you mean? 
Ξένος
τοὺς τῶν ἐπιγαμιῶν καὶ παίδων κοινωνήσεων καὶ τῶν περὶ τὰς ἰδίας ἐκδόσεις καὶ γάμους. 
οἱ γὰρ πολλοὶ τὰ περὶ ταῦτα οὐκ ὀρθῶς συνδοῦνται πρὸς τὴν τῶν παίδων γέννησιν. 
STRANGER:
Rights of intermarriage, and ties which are formed between States by giving and taking children in marriage, or between individuals by private betrothals and espousals. 
For most persons form marriage connexions without due regard to what is best for the procreation of children. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
τί δή; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
In what way? 
Ξένος
τὰ μὲν πλούτου καὶ δυνάμεων ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις διώγματα τί καί τις ἂν ὡς ἄξια λόγου σπουδάζοι μεμφόμενος; 
STRANGER:
They seek after wealth and power, which in matrimony are objects not worthy even of a serious censure. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
οὐδέν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
There is no need to consider them at all. 
Ξένος
μᾶλλον δέ γε δίκαιον τῶν περὶ τὰ γένη ποιουμένων (310c) ἐπιμέλειαν τούτων πέρι λέγειν, εἴ τι μὴ κατὰ τρόπον πράττουσιν. 
STRANGER:
More reason is there to consider the practice of those who make family their chief aim, and to indicate their error. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
εἰκὸς γὰρ οὖν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Quite true. 
Ξένος
πράττουσι μὲν δὴ οὐδ᾽ ἐξ ἑνὸς ὀρθοῦ λόγου, τὴν ἐν τῷ παραχρῆμα διώκοντες ῥᾳστώνην καὶ τῷ τοὺς μὲν προσομοίους αὐτοῖς ἀσπάζεσθαι, τοὺς δ᾽ ἀνομοίους μὴ στέργειν, πλεῖστον τῇ δυσχερείᾳ μέρος ἀπονέμοντες. 
STRANGER:
They act on no true principle at all; they seek their ease and receive with open arms those who are like themselves, and hate those who are unlike them, being too much influenced by feelings of dislike. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How so? 
Ξένος
οἱ μέν που κόσμιοι τὸ σφέτερον αὐτῶν ἦθος ζητοῦσι, καὶ κατὰ δύναμιν γαμοῦσί τε παρὰ τούτων καὶ τὰς (310d) ἐκδιδομένας παρ᾽ αὑτῶν εἰς τούτους ἐκπέμπουσι πάλιν: ὡς δ᾽ αὕτως τὸ περὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν γένος δρᾷ, τὴν αὑτοῦ μεταδιῶκον φύσιν, δέον ποιεῖν ἀμφότερα τὰ γένη τούτων τοὐναντίον ἅπαν. 
STRANGER:
The quiet orderly class seek for natures like their own, and as far as they can they marry and give in marriage exclusively in this class, and the courageous do the same; they seek natures like their own, whereas they should both do precisely the opposite. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς, καὶ διὰ τί; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How and why is that? 
Ξένος
διότι πέφυκεν ἀνδρεία τε ἐν πολλαῖς γενέσεσιν ἄμεικτος γεννωμένη σώφρονι φύσει κατὰ μὲν ἀρχὰς ἀκμάζειν ῥώμῃ, τελευτῶσα δὲ ἐξανθεῖν παντάπασι μανίαις. 
STRANGER:
Because courage, when untempered by the gentler nature during many generations, may at first bloom and strengthen, but at last bursts forth into downright madness. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
εἰκός. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Like enough. 
Ξένος
ἡ δὲ αἰδοῦς γε αὖ λίαν πλήρης ψυχὴ καὶ ἀκέραστος (310e) τόλμης ἀνδρείας, ἐπὶ δὲ γενεὰς πολλὰς οὕτω γεννηθεῖσα, νωθεστέρα φύεσθαι τοῦ καιροῦ καὶ ἀποτελευτῶσα δὴ παντάπασιν ἀναπηροῦσθαι. 
STRANGER:
And then, again, the soul which is over-full of modesty and has no element of courage in many successive generations, is apt to grow too indolent, and at last to become utterly paralyzed and useless. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
καὶ τοῦτ᾽ εἰκὸς οὕτω συμβαίνειν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
That, again, is quite likely. 
Ξένος
τούτους δὴ τοὺς δεσμοὺς ἔλεγον ὅτι χαλεπὸν οὐδὲν συνδεῖν ὑπάρξαντος τοῦ περὶ τὰ καλὰ κἀγαθὰ μίαν ἔχειν ἀμφότερα τὰ γένη δόξαν. 
τοῦτο γὰρ ἓν καὶ ὅλον ἐστὶ βασιλικῆς συνυφάνσεως ἔργον, μηδέποτε ἐᾶν ἀφίστασθαι σώφρονα ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνδρείων ἤθη, συγκερκίζοντα δὲ ὁμοδοξίαις καὶ τιμαῖς καὶ ἀτιμίαις καὶ δόξαις καὶ ὁμηρειῶν ἐκδόσεσιν εἰς ἀλλήλους, λεῖον καὶ τὸ λεγόμενον εὐήτριον (311a) ὕφασμα συνάγοντα ἐξ αὐτῶν, τὰς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν ἀρχὰς ἀεὶ κοινῇ τούτοις ἐπιτρέπειν. 
STRANGER:
It was of these bonds I said that there would be no difficulty in creating them, if only both classes originally held the same opinion about the honourable and good; 
--indeed, in this single work, the whole process of royal weaving is comprised--never to allow temperate natures to be separated from the brave, but to weave them together, like the warp and the woof, by common sentiments and honours and reputation, and by the giving of pledges to one another; and out of them forming one smooth and even web, to entrust to them the offices of State. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
How do you mean? 
Ξένος
οὗ μὲν ἂν ἑνὸς ἄρχοντος χρεία συμβαίνῃ, τὸν ταῦτα ἀμφότερα ἔχοντα αἱρούμενον ἐπιστάτην: οὗ δ᾽ ἂν πλειόνων, τούτων μέρος ἑκατέρων συμμειγνύντα. 
τὰ μὲν γὰρ σωφρόνων ἀρχόντων ἤθη σφόδρα μὲν εὐλαβῆ καὶ δίκαια καὶ σωτήρια, δριμύτητος δὲ καί τινος ἰταμότητος ὀξείας καὶ πρακτικῆς ἐνδεῖται. 
STRANGER:
Where one officer only is needed, you must choose a ruler who has both these qualities--when many, you must mingle some of each, 
for the temperate ruler is very careful and just and safe, but is wanting in thoroughness and go. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
δοκεῖ γοῦν δὴ καὶ τάδε. (311b) 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly, that is very true. 
Ξένος
τὰ δ᾽ ἀνδρεῖά γε αὖ πρὸς μὲν τὸ δίκαιον καὶ εὐλαβὲς ἐκείνων ἐπιδεέστερα, τὸ δὲ ἐν ταῖς πράξεσι ἰταμὸν διαφερόντως ἴσχει. πάντα δὲ καλῶς γίγνεσθαι τὰ περὶ τὰς πόλεις ἰδίᾳ καὶ δημοσίᾳ τούτοιν μὴ παραγενομένοιν ἀμφοῖν ἀδύνατον. 
STRANGER:
The character of the courageous, on the other hand, falls short of the former in justice and caution, but has the power of action in a remarkable degree, and where either of these two qualities is wanting, there cities cannot altogether prosper either in their public or private life. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Certainly they cannot. 
Ξένος
τοῦτο δὴ τέλος ὑφάσματος εὐθυπλοκίᾳ συμπλακὲν γίγνεσθαι φῶμεν πολιτικῆς πράξεως τὸ τῶν ἀνδρείων καὶ σωφρόνων ἀνθρώπων ἦθος, ὁπόταν ὁμονοίᾳ καὶ φιλίᾳ κοινὸν (311c) συναγαγοῦσα αὐτῶν τὸν βίον ἡ βασιλικὴ τέχνη, πάντων μεγαλοπρεπέστατον ὑφασμάτων καὶ ἄριστον ἀποτελέσασα ὥστ᾽ εἶναι κοινόν τούς τ᾽ ἄλλους ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι πάντας δούλους καὶ ἐλευθέρους ἀμπίσχουσα, συνέχῃ τούτῳ τῷ πλέγματι, καὶ καθ᾽ ὅσον εὐδαίμονι προσήκει γίγνεσθαι πόλει τούτου μηδαμῇ μηδὲν ἐλλείπουσα ἄρχῃ τε καὶ ἐπιστατῇ. 
STRANGER:
This then we declare to be the completion of the web of political action, which is created by a direct intertexture of the brave and temperate natures, whenever the royal science has drawn the two minds into communion with one another by unanimity and friendship, and having perfected the noblest and best of all the webs which political life admits, and enfolding therein all other inhabitants of cities, whether slaves or freemen, binds them in one fabric and governs and presides over them, and, in so far as to be happy is vouchsafed to a city, in no particular fails to secure their happiness. 
Νεώτερος Σωκράτης
κάλλιστα αὖ τὸν βασιλικὸν ἀπετέλεσας ἄνδρα ἡμῖν, ὦ ξένε, καὶ τὸν πολιτικόν. 
YOUNG SOCRATES:
Your picture, Stranger, of the king and statesman, no less than of the Sophist, is quite perfect. 
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