Bibliotheca Polyglotta

Μένων
ὦ Σώκρατες, ἤκουον μὲν ἔγωγε πρὶν καὶ συγγενέσθαι (80a) σοι ὅτι σὺ οὐδὲν ἄλλο ἢ αὐτός τε ἀπορεῖς καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ποιεῖς ἀπορεῖν: καὶ νῦν, ὥς γέ μοι δοκεῖς, γοητεύεις με καὶ φαρμάττεις καὶ ἀτεχνῶς κατεπᾴδεις, ὥστε μεστὸν ἀπορίας γεγονέναι. καὶ δοκεῖς μοι παντελῶς, εἰ δεῖ τι καὶ σκῶψαι, ὁμοιότατος εἶναι τό τε εἶδος καὶ τἆλλα ταύτῃ τῇ πλατείᾳ νάρκῃ τῇ θαλαττίᾳ: καὶ γὰρ αὕτη τὸν ἀεὶ πλησιάζοντα καὶ ἁπτόμενον ναρκᾶν ποιεῖ, καὶ σὺ δοκεῖς μοι νῦν ἐμὲ τοιοῦτόν τι πεποιηκέναι, ναρκᾶν: ἀληθῶς γὰρ ἔγωγε καὶ (80b) τὴν ψυχὴν καὶ τὸ στόμα ναρκῶ, καὶ οὐκ ἔχω ὅτι ἀποκρίνωμαί σοι. καίτοι μυριάκις γε περὶ ἀρετῆς παμπόλλους λόγους εἴρηκα καὶ πρὸς πολλούς, καὶ πάνυ εὖ, ὥς γε ἐμαυτῷ ἐδόκουν: νῦν δὲ οὐδ᾽ ὅτι ἐστὶν τὸ παράπαν ἔχω εἰπεῖν. καί μοι δοκεῖς εὖ βουλεύεσθαι οὐκ ἐκπλέων ἐνθένδε οὐδ᾽ ἀποδημῶν: εἰ γὰρ ξένος ἐν ἄλλῃ πόλει τοιαῦτα ποιοῖς, τάχ᾽ ἂν ὡς γόης ἀπαχθείης.

MENON. O Socrates, audivi nempe ego, priusquam etiam convenirem te, quoniam tu nichil aliud quam ipsemet dubitas et alios dubitare facis; atque nunc, uti michi videris, blandiris michi et attonitum reddis atque mirabiliter incantas, ut plenus dubietate fiam. Necnon videris michi omnifariam, si decet in aliquo contumeliis afficere, simillimus esse et in specie et in aliis huic late narce equoree. Etenim ipsa semper appropriantem et tangentem sopit et narcissare facit, atque tu michi videris nunc me talem secundum quid fecisse obstupefieri et narcissare. Vere enim ego et anima et ore obstupesco, et non habeo quid respondeam tibi. Etiam decies milies de virtute quam plurimos sermones dixi et ad plures et prorsus bene, ceu michi ipsi videbar; nunc nimirum neque quid est funditus habeo dicere. Et michi videris bene deliberasse haud abnavigans hinc neque peregre recedens. Si enim advena in alia civitate huiusmodi facias, fortassis utique tamquam seductor abigeris.

ME. Audieram equidem o Socrates antequam te alloquerer, morem esse tuum nihil aliud atque dubitare, et aliis scrupulos dubitationum iniicere. Et nunc quidem ut mihi videris, me præstigiis, et veneficiis incantationibusque perturbas, adeo ut ambiguitatis sim plenus. Ac mihi videris omnino, si tamen te iocando mordere aliqamtulum decet, quam simillimus esse tum forma, tum cæteris omnibus latissimo illi pisci marino qui Torpedo dicitur; ille siquidem hominem sibi propinquantem, tangentemque stupidum reddit. Tu quoque nunc me stupfacis. Revera enim et animum simul et os stupidum habeo, hæsitoque, nec quid tibi respondeam invenio, quanquam decies milies iam de virtute et multa et adversus quamplusrimos, ut mihi visus sum quamoptime disputavi. At in præsentia nec etiam quid ipsa sit virtus proferre ullo pacto valeo. Itaque caute tibi consuluisse te censo, quod nunquam alio peregrinaris. Nam si advena in aliena urbe hæc ageres, utpote præstigiator quidam, atque veneficus, supplicio forsitan afficereris.

MENO: O Socrates, I used to be told, before I knew you, that you were always doubting yourself and making others doubt; and now you are casting your spells over me, and I am simply getting bewitched and enchanted, and am at my wits’ end. And if I may venture to make a jest upon you, you seem to me both in your appearance and in your power over others to be very like the flat torpedo fish, who torpifies those who come near him and touch him, as you have now torpified me, I think. For my soul and my tongue are really torpid, and I do not know how to answer you; and though I have been delivered of an infinite variety of speeches about virtue before now, and to many persons--and very good ones they were, as I thought--at this moment I cannot even say what virtue is. And I think that you are very wise in not voyaging and going away from home, for if you did in other places as you do in Athens, you would be cast into prison as a magician.

Σωκράτης
πανοῦργος εἶ, ὦ Μένων, καὶ ὀλίγου ἐξηπάτησάς με.

SOCRATES. Versutus es, o Menon, et ferme fefellisti me.

SO. Callidus es, o Meno, ac me propemodum nunc decepisti.

SOCRATES: You are a rogue, Meno, and had all but caught me.

Μένων
τί μάλιστα, ὦ Σώκρατες;

MENON. Quid maxime, o Socrates?

ME. Quamobrem o Socrate?

MENO: What do you mean, Socrates?

(80c) Σωκράτης
γιγνώσκω οὗ ἕνεκά με ᾔκασας.

SOCRATES. Agnosco et cuius ergo comparasti me.

SO. Video enim iam quam ob causam hac imagine me depingas;

SOCRATES: I can tell why you made a simile about me.

Μένων
τίνος δὴ οἴει;

MENON. Cuius reris?

qua alia de causa,

MENO: Why?

Σωκράτης
ἵνα σε ἀντεικάσω. ἐγὼ δὲ τοῦτο οἶδα περὶ πάντων τῶν καλῶν, ὅτι χαίρουσιν εἰκαζόμενοι—λυσιτελεῖ γὰρ αὐτοῖς: καλαὶ γὰρ οἶμαι τῶν καλῶν καὶ αἱ εἰκόνες—ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἀντεικάσομαί σε. ἐγὼ δέ, εἰ μὲν ἡ νάρκη αὐτὴ ναρκῶσα οὕτω καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ποιεῖ ναρκᾶν, ἔοικα αὐτῇ: εἰ δὲ μή, οὔ. οὐ γὰρ εὐπορῶν αὐτὸς τοὺς ἄλλους ποιῶ ἀπορεῖν, ἀλλὰ παντὸς μᾶλλον αὐτὸς ἀπορῶν οὕτως καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ποιῶ (80d) ἀπορεῖν. καὶ νῦν περὶ ἀρετῆς ὃ ἔστιν ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκ οἶδα, σὺ μέντοι ἴσως πρότερον μὲν ᾔδησθα πρὶν ἐμοῦ ἅψασθαι, νῦν μέντοι ὅμοιος εἶ οὐκ εἰδότι. ὅμως δὲ ἐθέλω μετὰ σοῦ σκέψασθαι καὶ συζητῆσαι ὅτι ποτέ ἐστιν.

SOCRATES. Quatenus te recomparem. Ego nimirum hoc novi de omnibus bonis, quoniam gratulantur comparati - expedit enim eis: bone nimirum autumo bonorum etiam ymagines - sed neque comparabo te. Ego vero si narca ipsa narcissans ita et alios facit narcissare, similis sum ei; sin autem, minime. Non enim scientia habundans ipse alios facio hesitare, sed universis magis ipse ambigens, ita et ceteros facio dubitare. Et nunc quidem de virtute quid est ego quidem non novi, tu sane forsitan prius nosti, antequam me convenisses, nunc autem similis es ignoranti. Verumptamen volo tecum considerate ac simul vestigare quid est.

nisi ut ipse quoque te contra depingam? Viri enim honesto habitu præditi cum effinguntur, delectari solent. illud quippe conducit. honestorum honestæ sunt et imagines. At ego personam tuam minime effingam. Equidem si piscis ille stupidus ipse alios reddit stupidos, ei sum persimilis, secus autem minime. Neque enim sæcundus ipse, cæteros titubare compello, sed maxime omnium dubitans ego, dubitare alios quoque facio. Etenim in præsentia, quid virtus fit, haud certe novi, tu tamen forte priusquam mihi occurrbas, noveras, nunc vero stupido mihi similis evasisti. Verumtamen una tecum rem discutere hanc institui, quid ue sit virtus investigare.

SOCRATES: In order that I might make another simile about you. For I know that all pretty young gentlemen like to have pretty similes made about them--as well they may--but I shall not return the compliment. As to my being a torpedo, if the torpedo is torpid as well as the cause of torpidity in others, then indeed I am a torpedo, but not otherwise; for I perplex others, not because I am clear, but because I am utterly perplexed myself. And now I know not what virtue is, and you seem to be in the same case, although you did once perhaps know before you touched me. However, I have no objection to join with you in the enquiry.

Μένων
καὶ τίνα τρόπον ζητήσεις, ὦ Σώκρατες, τοῦτο ὃ μὴ οἶσθα τὸ παράπαν ὅτι ἐστίν; ποῖον γὰρ ὧν οὐκ οἶσθα προθέμενος ζητήσεις; ἢ εἰ καὶ ὅτι μάλιστα ἐντύχοις αὐτῷ, πῶς εἴσῃ ὅτι τοῦτό ἐστιν ὃ σὺ οὐκ ᾔδησθα;

MENON. Et quomodo queres, o Socrates, hoc quod non nosti ad totum quid sit? Quale enim eorum que nescis proponens queres? Si etiam quam certissime inveneris ipsum, qualiter scies, quoniam hoc est to quod tu nescis?

ME. At quo tramite id investigabis o Socrates, quod quidem omnino quid sit ignoras? Quale enim tibi proponens id quod ignoras inquires? Aut etiam si in illud incidas, quonam signo id quoque ignoraveras esse illud agnosces?

MENO: And how will you enquire, Socrates, into that which you do not know? What will you put forth as the subject of enquiry? And if you find what you want, how will you ever know that this is the thing which you did not know?

(80e) Σωκράτης
μανθάνω οἷον βούλει λέγειν, ὦ Μένων. ὁρᾷς τοῦτον ὡς ἐριστικὸν λόγον κατάγεις, ὡς οὐκ ἄρα ἔστιν ζητεῖν ἀνθρώπῳ οὔτε ὃ οἶδε οὔτε ὃ μὴ οἶδε; οὔτε γὰρ ἂν ὅ γε οἶδεν ζητοῖ—οἶδεν γάρ, καὶ οὐδὲν δεῖ τῷ γε τοιούτῳ ζητήσεως—οὔτε ὃ μὴ οἶδεν—οὐδὲ γὰρ οἶδεν ὅτι ζητήσει.

SOCRATES. Adverto quid tu velis dicere, o Menon. Vides hoc ut litigiosum argumentum adducis, quoniam non igitur est querendum homini neque quod novit, neque quod non novit? Neque enim quod novit querat - novit quippe et non est opus tall cuilibet questione - neque quod non novit, minime siquidem novit quod querat.

SO. Intelligo quid velis o Meno. At tu animadvertis me, quam pervicacem argumentationem in medium adduxisti? quod videlicet homo, neque quod novit, neque quod ignorat inquirit. Nam si noscit nulla inquisitione opus est. Sed eque quod nescit investigabit; non enim novit quid quærat.

SOCRATES: I know, Meno, what you mean; but just see what a tiresome dispute you are introducing. You argue that a man cannot enquire either about that which he knows, or about that which he does not know; for if he knows, he has no need to enquire; and if not, he cannot; for he does not know the very subject about which he is to enquire (Compare Aristot. Post. Anal.).

(81a) Μένων
οὐκοῦν καλῶς σοι δοκεῖ λέγεσθαι ὁ λόγος οὗτος, ὦ Σώκρατες;

MENON. Non revera bene tibi videtur did argumentum hoc, o Socrates?

ME. Nonne recte induci o Socrates hanc rationem existimas?

MENO: Well, Socrates, and is not the argument sound?

Σωκράτης
οὐκ ἔμοιγε.

SOCRATES. Non michi utique.

SO. Nequaquam.

SOCRATES: I think not.

Μένων
ἔχεις λέγειν ὅπῃ;

MENON. Habes dicere quomodo?

ME. Potes dicere cur tibi non placeat?

MENO: Why not?

Σωκράτης
ἔγωγε: ἀκήκοα γὰρ ἀνδρῶν τε καὶ γυναικῶν σοφῶν περὶ τὰ θεῖα πράγματα—

SOCRATES. Ego sane. Audivi enim a virisque et mulieribus sapientibus circa divinas res

SO. Possum. id enim a viris ac mulieribus divinarum rerum peritis quandoque percipi.

SOCRATES: I will tell you why: I have heard from certain wise men and women who spoke of things divine that--

Μένων
τίνα λόγον λεγόντων;

quendam sermonem dicentibus verum,

ME. Quis istorum sermo?

MENO: What did they say?

Σωκράτης
ἀληθῆ, ἔμοιγε δοκεῖν, καὶ καλόν.

michi quoque videri, ac bonum.

SO. Verus, it mihi videtur, atque præclarus.

SOCRATES: They spoke of a glorious truth, as I conceive.

Μένων
τίνα τοῦτον, καὶ τίνες οἱ λέγοντες;

MENON. Quem hunc et qui dicentes?

ME. Quis inquam iste? et quinam testantur?

MENO: What was it? and who were they?

Σωκράτης
οἱ μὲν λέγοντές εἰσι τῶν ἱερέων τε καὶ τῶν ἱερειῶν ὅσοις μεμέληκε περὶ ὧν μεταχειρίζονται λόγον οἵοις τ᾽ εἶναι (81b) διδόναι: λέγει δὲ καὶ Πίνδαρος καὶ ἄλλοι πολλοὶ τῶν ποιητῶν ὅσοι θεῖοί εἰσιν. ἃ δὲ λέγουσιν, ταυτί ἐστιν: ἀλλὰ σκόπει εἴ σοι δοκοῦσιν ἀληθῆ λέγειν. φασὶ γὰρ τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου εἶναι ἀθάνατον, καὶ τοτὲ μὲν τελευτᾶν—ὃ δὴ ἀποθνῄσκειν καλοῦσι—τοτὲ δὲ πάλιν γίγνεσθαι, ἀπόλλυσθαι δ᾽ οὐδέποτε: δεῖν δὴ διὰ ταῦτα ὡς ὁσιώτατα διαβιῶναι τὸν βίον: οἷσιν γὰρ ἂν—

SOCRATES. Dicentes quidem sunt ex sacerdotibus et sacerdotissis, quibuscunque cure fuit, de quibus meditabantur, rationem possibiles esse dare. Dicitque et Pindarus et alii multi poetarum quicunque divini sunt. Que vero inquiunt hec sunt. Ceterum attende si tibi videntur vera proferre. Aiunt quippe animam hominis esse immortalem, et aliquotiens autem obire - quod mori vocant - interdum quoque iterum generari, interire vero nunquam. Oportere profecto propter ista quam sanctissime degendo agere vitam. ‘Quibus’ enim

SO. Qui hoc afferunt, sancti viri sunt, ac santæ etiam mulieres, quibuscunque cura existit, ut eorum quæ profitentur rationem reddere possent. Tradit præterea Pindarus, et cæteri quicunque Poëtarum divini sunt, talia quædam; quæ adverte quæso, num vera tibi videantur. Ferunt enim hominis animum immortalem esse, eumque tum decedere, quod quidem mori vocant, tum iterum redire, interire vero nunquam. Quam ob causam vita quoque sanctissime agere monent. Quicunque enim

SOCRATES: Some of them were priests and priestesses, who had studied how they might be able to give a reason of their profession: there have been poets also, who spoke of these things by inspiration, like Pindar, and many others who were inspired. And they say--mark, now, and see whether their words are true-- they say that the soul of man is immortal, and at one time has an end, which is termed dying, and at another time is born again, but is never destroyed. And the moral is, that a man ought to live always in perfect holiness.

“Φερσεφόνα ποινὰν παλαιοῦ πένθεος
δέξεται, εἰς τὸν ὕπερθεν ἅλιον κείνων ἐνάτῳ ἔτεϊ
ἀνδιδοῖ ψυχὰς πάλιν,”

(81c) “ἐκ τᾶν βασιλῆες ἀγαυοὶ
καὶ σθένει κραιπνοὶ σοφίᾳ τε μέγιστοι
ἄνδρες αὔξοντ᾽: ἐς δὲ τὸν λοιπὸν χρόνον ἥρωες ἁγνοὶ
πρὸς ἀνθρώπων καλεῦνται.” (Pind. Fr. 133 Bergk)

‘Persefone penam veteris luctus
acceperit, in superam maritimam illorum nono anno
reddat animam iterum,

ex quibus reges clari
et robore fortes sapientiaque maximi
viri crescent. In reliquo vero tempore heroes pudici
ab hominibus vocantur’.

pœnas antiquæ miseriæ, Proserpinæ iam dederunt, iis illa ad supernum solem nono anno rursus animam reddit, quousque in reges glorai sagacitate, sapientiaque præstantes evadant. Reliquum atem tempus sncti heroës inter homines vocantur.

‘For in the ninth year Persephone sends the souls of those from whom she has received the penalty of ancient crime back again from beneath into the light of the sun above,

and these are they who become noble kings and mighty men and great in wisdom and are called saintly heroes in after ages.’

ἅτε οὖν ἡ ψυχὴ ἀθάνατός τε οὖσα καὶ πολλάκις γεγονυῖα, καὶ ἑωρακυῖα καὶ τὰ ἐνθάδε καὶ τὰ ἐν Ἅιδου καὶ πάντα χρήματα, οὐκ ἔστιν ὅτι οὐ μεμάθηκεν: ὥστε οὐδὲν θαυμαστὸν καὶ περὶ ἀρετῆς καὶ περὶ ἄλλων οἷόν τ᾽ εἶναι αὐτὴν ἀναμνησθῆναι, ἅ γε καὶ πρότερον ἠπίστατο. ἅτε γὰρ τῆς φύσεως (81d) ἁπάσης συγγενοῦς οὔσης, καὶ μεμαθηκυίας τῆς ψυχῆς ἅπαντα, οὐδὲν κωλύει ἓν μόνον ἀναμνησθέντα—ὃ δὴ μάθησιν καλοῦσιν ἄνθρωποι—τἆλλα πάντα αὐτὸν ἀνευρεῖν, ἐάν τις ἀνδρεῖος ᾖ καὶ μὴ ἀποκάμνῃ ζητῶν: τὸ γὰρ ζητεῖν ἄρα καὶ τὸ μανθάνειν ἀνάμνησις ὅλον ἐστίν. οὔκουν δεῖ πείθεσθαι τούτῳ τῷ ἐριστικῷ λόγῳ: οὗτος μὲν γὰρ ἂν ἡμᾶς ἀργοὺς ποιήσειεν καὶ ἔστιν τοῖς μαλακοῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἡδὺς ἀκοῦσαι, ὅδε (81e) δὲ ἐργατικούς τε καὶ ζητητικοὺς ποιεῖ: ᾧ ἐγὼ πιστεύων ἀληθεῖ εἶναι ἐθέλω μετὰ σοῦ ζητεῖν ἀρετὴ ὅτι ἐστίν.

Tamquam ergo anima immortalisque existens et que frequenter nata sit et perspexerit et que hic et que in Averno et universas res, non est quod non didicerit. Qua de re non mirum et de virtute et de aliis possibile esse ipsam reminisci, que et prius scivit. Quasi enim nature totius cognata existente anima et que didicerit universa, nichil prohibet unum dumtaxat recordatum - quod vero disciplinam vocant homines - alia cuncta ipsum ad(in)veniente(m), si quis virilis fuerit et minime pre labore desistat querens. Nam querere igitur et discere monumentum totum est. Nullatenus ergo decet persuaderi huic litigioso argumento. Hoc namque nos segnes faciet et es. mollibus hominum dulce auditu, illud sane operativos et inquisitivos efficit. Cui ego credens verum esse, volo tecum scrutari virtus quid est.

. Quamobrem nihil mirum est, si eorum quæ ad virtutem et ad alia pertinent, reminisci possit; quippe cum olim illa cognoverit. Cum enim tota natura cognata sit, ac sibimet consona, et animus cuncta didicerit, nihil prohibet hominem unius quiusdam reminiscentem, quam disciplinam vocant, reliqua omnia recupe rare, siquis adeo constans sit, ut quæreno minime fatigetur.Quærere igitur ac dicere reminiscentia est. Quapropter litigiosæ illi argumntationi nequaquam credere decet, pigros enim nos quodammodo redderet. Ea quoque mollioribus hominibus mirifice placet. Ratio autem nostra solertes rerum investiagatores efficit, qua ipse utpote vera fretus, una tecum quid sit virtus perscrutari desidero.

The soul, then, as being immortal, and having been born again many times, and having seen all things that exist, whether in this world or in the world below, has knowledge of them all; and it is no wonder that she should be able to call to remembrance all that she ever knew about virtue, and about everything; for as all nature is akin, and the soul has learned all things; there is no difficulty in her eliciting or as men say learning, out of a single recollection all the rest, if a man is strenuous and does not faint; for all enquiry and all learning is but recollection. And therefore we ought not to listen to this sophistical argument about the impossibility of enquiry: for it will make us idle; and is sweet only to the sluggard; but the other saying will make us active and inquisitive. In that confiding, I will gladly enquire with you into the nature of virtue.

Μένων
ναί, ὦ Σώκρατες: ἀλλὰ πῶς λέγεις τοῦτο, ὅτι οὐ μανθάνομεν, ἀλλὰ ἣν καλοῦμεν μάθησιν ἀνάμνησίς ἐστιν; ἔχεις με τοῦτο διδάξαι ὡς οὕτως ἔχει;

MENON. Ne, o Socrates; verum simpliciter dicis hoc, quia non addiscimus, immo quam vocamus disciplinam monumentum est? Habes me istud docere quoniam sic se habet?

ME. Imo o Socrates. sed num absolute id afferis nos minime discere? quam disciplinam vocamus reminiscentiam esse? potesne hoc is esse me docere?

MENO: Yes, Socrates; but what do you mean by saying that we do not learn, and that what we call learning is only a process of recollection? Can you teach me how this is?

Σωκράτης
καὶ ἄρτι εἶπον, ὦ Μένων, ὅτι πανοῦργος εἶ, καὶ (82a) νῦν ἐρωτᾷς εἰ ἔχω σε διδάξαι, ὃς οὔ φημι διδαχὴν εἶναι ἀλλ᾽ ἀνάμνησιν, ἵνα δὴ εὐθὺς φαίνωμαι αὐτὸς ἐμαυτῷ τἀναντία λέγων.

SOCRATES. Et modo dicebam, o Menon, quoniam versipellis es, et nunc rogas, an habeam te docere, qui non dicam doctrinam esse sed recordationem, quatenus statim appaream ipse michi ipsi contraria dicens.

SO. In superioribus quoque o Meno te callidum esse dixi, et nunc rogas utrum docere te possim, cum ante nullam esse disciplinam, sed reminiscentiam afferuerim, ut evestigio mihi ipsi repugnare videar.

SOCRATES: I told you, Meno, just now that you were a rogue, and now you ask whether I can teach you, when I am saying that there is no teaching, but only recollection; and thus you imagine that you will involve me in a contradiction.

Μένων
οὐ μὰ τὸν Δία, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐ πρὸς τοῦτο βλέψας εἶπον, ἀλλ᾽ ὑπὸ τοῦ ἔθους: ἀλλ᾽ εἴ πώς μοι ἔχεις ἐνδείξασθαι ὅτι ἔχει ὥσπερ λέγεις, ἔνδειξαι.

MENON. Nequaquam per Iovem, o Socrates, non ad hoc respiciens dicebam, sed consuetudine. Verum si quo pacto michi habes ostendere, quoniam ita se habet ut dicis, ostende.

ME. Per Iovem o Socrates non hoc instituebam, sed consuetudine potius quadam ita locutus sum. Quod si qua ratione illud mihi ostendere potes, ostende obsecro.

MENO: Indeed, Socrates, I protest that I had no such intention. I only asked the question from habit; but if you can prove to me that what you say is true, I wish that you would.

Σωκράτης
ἀλλ᾽ ἔστι μὲν οὐ ῥᾴδιον, ὅμως δὲ ἐθέλω προθυμηθῆναι σοῦ ἕνεκα. ἀλλά μοι προσκάλεσον τῶν πολλῶν (82b) ἀκολούθων τουτωνὶ τῶν σαυτοῦ ἕνα, ὅντινα βούλει, ἵνα ἐν τούτῳ σοι ἐπιδείξωμαι.

SOCRATES. Sed est equidem non facile, attamen volo animum adhibere tui ergo. Atqui michi advoca multorum acolitorum horum tui ipsius unum quem velis, quatenus in hoc tibi demonstrem.

SO. Haudquaquam facile est, tui tamen gratia conabor. Verum huc ad me unim aliquem istorum qui te sequuntur, accerse, ut in eam demonstrationem hanc experiamur.

SOCRATES: It will be no easy matter, but I will try to please you to the utmost of my power. Suppose that you call one of your numerous attendants, that I may demonstrate on him.

Μένων
πάνυ γε. δεῦρο πρόσελθε.

MENON. Prorsus utique huc accede.

ME. Libenter. heus tu huc ades.

MENO: Certainly. Come hither, boy.

Σωκράτης
Ἕλλην μέν ἐστι καὶ ἑλληνίζει;

Grecus autem est et grecissat,

SO. Græcus ne est? et Græce loquitur?

SOCRATES: He is Greek, and speaks Greek, does he not?

Μένων
πάνυ γε σφόδρα, οἰκογενής γε.

omnino certe servus domi genitus.

ME. Et Græcus est, et in domo mea genitus atque educatus.

MENO: Yes, indeed; he was born in the house.

Σωκράτης
πρόσεχε δὴ τὸν νοῦν ὁπότερ᾽ ἄν σοι φαίνηται, ἢ ἀναμιμνῃσκόμενος ἢ μανθάνων παρ᾽ ἐμοῦ.

SOCRATES. Applica sane mentem, utrum tibi videatur, an in memoriam reductus an addiscens a me.

SO. Attende igitur num illi in memoriam reducam, an doceam.

SOCRATES: Attend now to the questions which I ask him, and observe whether he learns of me or only remembers.

Μένων
ἀλλὰ προσέξω.

MENON. Immo attendam.

ME. Attendam certe.

MENO: I will.

Σωκράτης
εἰπὲ δή μοι, ὦ παῖ, γιγνώσκεις τετράγωνον χωρίον ὅτι τοιοῦτόν ἐστιν;

SOCRATES. Dic quoque michi, o puer,

SO. Dic age o puer, cognoscis ne hoc tale spatium quadrangulum esse?

SOCRATES: Tell me, boy, do you know that a figure like this is a square?

Παῖς
ἔγωγε.

PU. Equidem.

BOY: I do.

Σωκράτης
ἔστιν οὖν (82c) τετράγωνον χωρίον ἴσας ἔχον τὰς γραμμὰς ταύτας πάσας, τέτταρας οὔσας;

agnoscis quadrangulum spatium equales habens lineas has omnes, quatuor cum sint?

SO. Habet ne quadrangulus has omnes quatuor limneas æquales?

SOCRATES: And you know that a square figure has these four lines equal?

Παῖς
πάνυ γε.

ACOLITUS. Penitus.

PU. Habet.

BOY: Certainly.

Σωκράτης
οὐ καὶ ταυτασὶ τὰς διὰ μέσου ἐστὶν ἴσας ἔχον;

SOCRATES. Nonne et istas, que per medium, est equales habens?

SO. An non et isbas quæ per medium protrahuntur, æquales habet?

SOCRATES: And these lines which I have drawn through the middle of the square are also equal?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Etiam.

PU. Et istas.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν εἴη ἂν τοιοῦτον χωρίον καὶ μεῖζον καὶ ἔλαττον;

SOCRATES. Igitur esto utique huiuscemodi spatium maius ac minus?

SO. Nonne et maior et minor esse potest?

SOCRATES: A square may be of any size?

Παῖς
πάνυ γε.

ACOLITUS. Omnino.

PU. Potest.

BOY: Certainly.

Σωκράτης
εἰ οὖν εἴη αὕτη ἡ πλευρὰ δυοῖν ποδοῖν καὶ αὕτη δυοῖν, πόσων ἂν εἴη ποδῶν τὸ ὅλον; ὧδε δὲ σκόπει: εἰ ἦν ταύτῃ δυοῖν ποδοῖν, ταύτῃ δὲ ἑνὸς ποδὸς μόνον, ἄλλο τι ἅπαξ ἂν ἦν δυοῖν ποδοῖν τὸ χωρίον;

SOCRATES. Si ergo fuerit hoc latus duorum pedum et hoc duorum, quot nempe erit pedum totum? Sic autem examina: esto hoc duorum pedum, hoc vero unius pedis dumtaxat, aliud quid quam semel nempe erit duorum pedum spatium?

SO. Si ergo sit hoc latus duorum pedum, et istud quoque duorum, quot pedum totum ipsum erit? Sic autem considera, si latus hoc duorum esset pedum, ullud vero unius, esset ne plusquam semel duorum pedum hoc spatium?

SOCRATES: And if one side of the figure be of two feet, and the other side be of two feet, how much will the whole be? Let me explain: if in one direction the space was of two feet, and in the other direction of one foot, the whole would be of two feet taken once?

Παῖς
(82d) ναί.

ACOLITUS. Ita.

PU. Semel.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
ἐπειδὴ δὲ δυοῖν ποδοῖν καὶ ταύτῃ, ἄλλο τι ἢ δὶς δυοῖν γίγνεται;

SOCRATES. Quando quidem certe duorum et hoc, aliud quid quam bis efficitur?

SO. Quoniam verum alterumquoque latus duorum pedum est, num aliud quam bis duorum pedum sit?

SOCRATES: But since this side is also of two feet, there are twice two feet?

Παῖς
γίγνεται.

ACOLITUS. Efficitur.

PU. Istuc ipsum.

BOY: There are.

Σωκράτης
δυοῖν ἄρα δὶς γίγνεται ποδῶν;

SOCRATES. Duorum itaque bis fit pedum?

SO. Duorum ergo bis pedum efficiuntur.

SOCRATES: Then the square is of twice two feet?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Ne.

PU. Ita.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
πόσοι οὖν εἰσιν οἱ δύο δὶς πόδες; λογισάμενος εἰπέ.

SOCRATES. Quot igitur sunt duo bis pedes? Ratiocinatus dic.

SO. Quotnam sunt bis duo pedes? computa.

SOCRATES: And how many are twice two feet? count and tell me.

Παῖς
τέτταρες, ὦ Σώκρατες.

ACOLITUS. Quatuor, o Socrates.

PU. Quatuor.

BOY: Four, Socrates.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν γένοιτ᾽ ἂν τούτου τοῦ χωρίου ἕτερον διπλάσιον, τοιοῦτον δέ, ἴσας ἔχον πάσας τὰς γραμμὰς ὥσπερ τοῦτο;

SOCRATES. Igitur fiat utique huius spatii alterum duplum, tale nempe, equales habens cunctas lineas tamquam istud?

SO. An non fieri potest spatium aliud ad hoc duplum, habens similiter omnes æquales lineas quemadmodum istud habere vides?

SOCRATES: And might there not be another square twice as large as this, and having like this the lines equal?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Sic.

PU. Prorsus.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
πόσων οὖν ἔσται ποδῶν;

SOCRATES. Quot ergo erit pedum?

SO. Quot pedum erit?

SOCRATES: And of how many feet will that be?

Παῖς
ὀκτώ.

ACOLITUS. Octo.

PU. Octo.

BOY: Of eight feet.

Σωκράτης
φέρε δή, πειρῶ μοι εἰπεῖν πηλίκη τις ἔσται (82e) ἐκείνου ἡ γραμμὴ ἑκάστη. ἡ μὲν γὰρ τοῦδε δυοῖν ποδοῖν: τί δὲ ἡ ἐκείνου τοῦ διπλασίου;

SOCRATES. Eya vero, experire michi dicere, quantum quid erit illius linea unaqueque. Nam huius duorum pedum; quid autem illius dupli?

SO. Age iam conare mihi dicere, qualis est quælibet illius linea; huius siquidem duorum pedum. linea vero illius dupli, qualis?

SOCRATES: And now try and tell me the length of the line which forms the side of that double square: this is two feet--what will that be?

Παῖς
δῆλον δή, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι διπλασία.

ACOLITUS. Liquet, o Socrates, quoniam dupla.

PU. Patet o Socrates esse duplam.

BOY: Clearly, Socrates, it will be double.

Σωκράτης
ὁρᾷς, ὦ Μένων, ὡς ἐγὼ τοῦτον οὐδὲν διδάσκω, ἀλλ᾽ ἐρωτῶ πάντα; καὶ νῦν οὗτος οἴεται εἰδέναι ὁποία ἐστὶν ἀφ᾽ ἧς τὸ ὀκτώπουν χωρίον γενήσεται: ἢ οὐ δοκεῖ σοι;

SOCRATES. Vides, o Menon, quoniam ego hunc nichil doceo, sed interrogo universa? Et nunc iste autumat scire, qualis est qua octopedale spatium fiat; an non videtur tibi?

SO. Cernis o Meno, me nihil ex his docere, sed singula potius interrogare? Et nunc iste nosse se putat, qualis ea sit a qua spatium octo pedum conficitur. An non tibi videtur?

SOCRATES: Do you observe, Meno, that I am not teaching the boy anything, but only asking him questions; and now he fancies that he knows how long a line is necessary in order to produce a figure of eight square feet; does he not?

Μένων
ἔμοιγε.

MENON. Michi profecto.

ME. Mihi quidem.

MENO: Yes.

Σωκράτης
οἶδεν οὖν;

SOCRATES. Novit igitur?

SO. Novit igitur?

SOCRATES: And does he really know?

Μένων
οὐ δῆτα.

MENON. Neutiquam.

ME. Minime.

MENO: Certainly not.

Σωκράτης
οἴεται δέ γε ἀπὸ τῆς διπλασίας;

SOCRATES. Existimat certe a dupla?

SO. Putat autem a dupla?

SOCRATES: He only guesses that because the square is double, the line is double.

Μένων
ναί.

MENON. Ita.

ME. Ita.

MENO: True.

Σωκράτης
θεῶ δὴ αὐτὸν ἀναμιμνῃσκόμενον ἐφεξῆς, ὡς δεῖ ἀναμιμνῄσκεσθαι. σὺ δέ μοι λέγε: ἀπὸ τῆς διπλασίας γραμμῆς φῂς τὸ (83a) διπλάσιον χωρίον γίγνεσθαι; τοιόνδε λέγω, μὴ ταύτῃ μὲν μακρόν, τῇ δὲ βραχύ, ἀλλὰ ἴσον πανταχῇ ἔστω ὥσπερ τουτί, διπλάσιον δὲ τούτου, ὀκτώπουν: ἀλλ᾽ ὅρα εἰ ἔτι σοι ἀπὸ τῆς διπλασίας δοκεῖ ἔσεσθαι.

SOCRATES. Vide autem ipsum recordatum deinceps, ut oportet reminisci. Tu veto dic: a dupla linea dicis duplum spatium fieri? Tale quidem dico: non hac quoque longum, hac veto breve, sed equale undique esto quemadmodum istud, duplum sane huic, octopedale. Verum vide an adhuc a dupla videtur fore.

SO. Aspice deinceps hunc per ordinem ut oportet reminiscentem. Tu autem dic amabo a dupla limmea duplum spatium nasci fateris? tale profecto dico, quod non hac lingua, illa breve, sed quale inique quemadmodum istud; duplum vero istius, octo pedum. sed inspice an tibi adhuc a dupla fieri videant.

SOCRATES: Observe him while he recalls the steps in regular order. (To the Boy:) Tell me, boy, do you assert that a double space comes from a double line? Remember that I am not speaking of an oblong, but of a figure equal every way, and twice the size of this--that is to say of eight feet; and I want to know whether you still say that a double square comes from double line?

Παῖς
ἔμοιγε.

ACOLITUS. Michi nempe.

PU. Mihi plane.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν διπλασία αὕτη ταύτης γίγνεται, ἂν ἑτέραν τοσαύτην προσθῶμεν ἐνθένδε;

SOCRATES. Igitur dupla ipsa huius efficitur, si alteram tantam apponamus hinc quoque?

SO. Nonne huius dupla hæc sit, si aliam æqualem huic adiiciamus?

SOCRATES: But does not this line become doubled if we add another such line here?

Παῖς
πάνυ γε.

ACOLITUS. Funditus utique.

PU. Prorsus.

BOY: Certainly.

Σωκράτης
ἀπὸ ταύτης δή, φῄς, ἔσται τὸ ὀκτώπουν χωρίον, ἂν τέτταρες τοσαῦται (83b) γένωνται;

SOCRATES. Ab ista, dicis, erit octopedale spatium, si quatuor tante fiant?

SO. Ab hac fore dicis octo pedum spatium, si quidem quatuor huic ęquales efficiantur?

SOCRATES: And four such lines will make a space containing eight feet?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Etiam.

PU. Aio.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
ἀναγραψώμεθα δὴ ἀπ᾽ αὐτῆς ἴσας τέτταρας. ἄλλο τι ἢ τουτὶ ἂν εἴη ὃ φῂς τὸ ὀκτώπουν εἶναι;

SOCRATES. Describamus autem ab ea equales quatuor. Aliud quicquid istud nempe erit, quod ais octopedale esse?

SO. Describamus iterum igitur ab hac æquales quatuor, aliud ne quoque quod octo pedum vocas, suborient?

SOCRATES: Let us describe such a figure: Would you not say that this is the figure of eight feet?

Παῖς
πάνυ γε.

ACOLITUS. Omnino.

PU. Hoc ipsum.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν ἐν αὐτῷ ἐστιν ταυτὶ τέτταρα, ὧν ἕκαστον ἴσον τούτῳ ἐστὶν τῷ τετράποδι;

SOCRATES. Itaque in ipso erunt hec quatuor, quorum singulum equa!e erit huic quadrupedali?

SO. Nonne in ipso sunt hæc quatuor, quorum quodlibet isti quadrupedali æquale est?

SOCRATES: And are there not these four divisions in the figure, each of which is equal to the figure of four feet?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Ne.

PU. Certe.

BOY: True.

Σωκράτης
πόσον οὖν γίγνεται; οὐ τετράκις τοσοῦτον;

SOCRATES. Quantum ergo efficitur? Quater tantum?

SO. Quantum itaque sit? an non quater tantum?

SOCRATES: And is not that four times four?

Παῖς
πῶς δ᾽ οὔ;

ACOLITUS. Qui vero minime?

PU. Quid ni?

BOY: Certainly.

Σωκράτης
διπλάσιον οὖν ἐστιν τὸ τετράκις τοσοῦτον;

SOCRATES. Duplum igitur est quater tantum?

SO. Num duplum est id quod quater tantum?

SOCRATES: And four times is not double?

Παῖς
οὐ μὰ Δία.

ACOLITUS. Non per Iovem.

PU. Non perIovem.

BOY: No, indeed.

Σωκράτης
ἀλλὰ ποσαπλάσιον;

SOCRATES. At quantuplum?

SO. At quotuplum?

SOCRATES: But how much?

Παῖς
τετραπλάσιον.

ACOLITUS. Quadruplum.

PU. Quadruplum.

BOY: Four times as much.

Σωκράτης
ἀπὸ τῆς διπλασίας (83c) ἄρα, ὦ παῖ, οὐ διπλάσιον ἀλλὰ τετραπλάσιον γίγνεται χωρίον.

SOCRATES. A dupla igitur, o puer, haud duplum immo quadruplum efficitur spatium.

SO. A dupla ergo o Puer non duplum, sed quadruplumspatium procreant?

SOCRATES: Therefore the double line, boy, has given a space, not twice, but four times as much.

Παῖς
ἀληθῆ λέγεις.

ACOLITUS. Verum inquis.

PU. Vera loqueris.

BOY: True.

Σωκράτης
τεττάρων γὰρ τετράκις ἐστὶν ἑκκαίδεκα. οὐχί;

SOCRATES. Ex quatuor nimirum quater est sedecim, nonne?

SO. Quater enim quatuor sex et decem complent, nonne?

SOCRATES: Four times four are sixteen--are they not?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Ne.

PU. Sic est.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
ὀκτώπουν δ᾽ ἀπὸ ποίας γραμμῆς; οὐχὶ ἀπὸ μὲν ταύτης τετραπλάσιον;

SOCRATES. Octopedale revera a qua linea non ab ista vero quadruplum?

SO. Octo pedum autem spatium a qua linea? nonne ab hac quadruplum?

SOCRATES: What line would give you a space of eight feet, as this gives one of sixteen feet;--do you see?

Παῖς
φημί.

ACOLITUS. Inquam.

PU. Fateor.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
τετράπουν δὲ ἀπὸ τῆς ἡμισέας ταυτησὶ τουτί;

SOCRATES. Quadrupedale revera a dimidia ista hec?

SO. Quartum vero hoc ab hac dimidia?

SOCRATES: And the space of four feet is made from this half line?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Sic.

PU. Ita.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
εἶεν: τὸ δὲ ὀκτώπουν οὐ τοῦδε μὲν διπλάσιόν ἐστιν, τούτου δὲ ἥμισυ;

SOCRATES. Octopedale num illius duplum est, huius vero dimidium?

SO. Age igitur octo pedum nonne huius duplum est, illius vero dimidium?

SOCRATES: Good; and is not a space of eight feet twice the size of this, and half the size of the other?

Παῖς
ναί.

PU. Imo.

BOY: Certainly.

Σωκράτης
οὐκ ἀπὸ μὲν μείζονος ἔσται ἢ τοσαύτης γραμμῆς, ἀπὸ ἐλάττονος δὲ ἢ (83d) τοσησδί; ἢ οὔ;

Numquid a maiore erit sive tanta linea, a minore quoque quam tanta, nonne?

SO. An non edit ergo a maiori linea quam hæc tanta, et a minori atque illa tanta?

SOCRATES: Such a space, then, will be made out of a line greater than this one, and less than that one?

Παῖς
ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ οὕτω.

ACOLITUS. Michi revera videtur ita.

PU. Mihi quidem videtur.

BOY: Yes; I think so.

Σωκράτης
καλῶς: τὸ γάρ σοι δοκοῦν τοῦτο ἀποκρίνου. καί μοι λέγε: οὐχ ἥδε μὲν δυοῖν ποδοῖν ἦν, ἡ δὲ τεττάρων;

SOCRATES. Bene; quid enim tibi videtur, hoc responde. Et michi dic: nonne hec quidem duorum pedum erat, illa vero quatuor?

SO. Sic utique reecte loqueris. quod enim tibi videtur, id responde; ac mihi dicas, hæc ne duorum pedum, illa quatuor?

SOCRATES: Very good; I like to hear you say what you think. And now tell me, is not this a line of two feet and that of four?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Ne.

PU. Ita.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
δεῖ ἄρα τὴν τοῦ ὀκτώποδος χωρίου γραμμὴν μείζω μὲν εἶναι τῆσδε τῆς δίποδος, ἐλάττω δὲ τῆς τετράποδος.

SOCRATES. Oportet igitur octopedis spatii lineam maiorem esse ista dipode, minorem revera tetrapode.

SO. Oportet itaque octo pedum spatii lineam maiorem esse linea spatii bipedalis, minorem vero quadrupedalis linea.

SOCRATES: Then the line which forms the side of eight feet ought to be more than this line of two feet, and less than the other of four feet?

Παῖς
δεῖ.

ACOLITUS. Oportet.

PU. Oportet.

BOY: It ought.

(83e) Σωκράτης
πειρῶ δὴ λέγειν πηλίκην τινὰ φῂς αὐτὴν εἶναι.

SOCRATES. Tempta dicere, quantam ais ipsam esse.

SO. Annitere ut nobis qualis sit dicas.

SOCRATES: Try and see if you can tell me how much it will be.

Παῖς
τρίποδα.

ACOLITUS. Tripedalem.

PU. Tripedalis.

BOY: Three feet.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν ἄνπερ τρίπους ᾖ, τὸ ἥμισυ ταύτης προσληψόμεθα καὶ ἔσται τρίπους; δύο μὲν γὰρ οἵδε, ὁ δὲ εἷς: καὶ ἐνθένδε ὡσαύτως δύο μὲν οἵδε, ὁ δὲ εἷς: καὶ γίγνεται τοῦτο τὸ χωρίον ὃ φῄς.

SOCRATES. Ergo si tripedalis fuerit, dimidium huius assumemus et erit tripedalis? Duo quippe illi hic autem unus. Et ex hac parte similiter duo quidem illi, hic autem unus. Atque fit hoc spatium quod ais?

SO. Nonne si tripedalis est, dimidium huius assumemus, eritqu tripedalis? Duo nanque ii, is autem unus; et hinc eodem modo, duo quidem isti, iste autem unus; sitque hoc quod ais spatium.

SOCRATES: Then if we add a half to this line of two, that will be the line of three. Here are two and there is one; and on the other side, here are two also and there is one: and that makes the figure of which you speak?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Ita.

PU. Ita.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν ἂν ᾖ τῇδε τριῶν καὶ τῇδε τριῶν, τὸ ὅλον χωρίον τριῶν τρὶς ποδῶν γίγνεται;

SOCRATES. Igitur si fuerit hac vero trium et hac quoque trium, totum spatium trium tripedum efficitur?

SO. Nonne si hæc trium est et illa trium, totum utique spatium ter trium pedum conficutur?

SOCRATES: But if there are three feet this way and three feet that way, the whole space will be three times three feet?

Παῖς
φαίνεται.

ACOLITUS. Patet.

PU. Apparet.

BOY: That is evident.

Σωκράτης
τρεῖς δὲ τρὶς πόσοι εἰσὶ πόδες;

SOCRATES. Tres autem ter quot sunt pedes?

SO. Ter vero tres, quot pedes sunt?

SOCRATES: And how much are three times three feet?

Παῖς
ἐννέα.

ACOLITUS. Novem.

PU. Novem.

BOY: Nine.

Σωκράτης
ἔδει δὲ τὸ διπλάσιον πόσων εἶναι ποδῶν;

SOCRATES. Oportuit profecto duplum quot esse pedum?

SO. Duplum autem quot pedum esse supra oportuit?

SOCRATES: And how much is the double of four?

Παῖς
ὀκτώ.

ACOLITUS. Octo.

PU. Octo.

BOY: Eight.

Σωκράτης
οὐδ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἀπὸ τῆς τρίποδός πω τὸ ὀκτώπουν χωρίον γίγνεται.

SOCRATES. Haud igitur a tripedali octopedale spatium efficitur.

SO. Non ergo a tripedali spatium octo pedum exoritur.

SOCRATES: Then the figure of eight is not made out of a line of three?

Παῖς
οὐ δῆτα.

ACOLITUS. Nullatenus.

PU. Non profecto.

BOY: No.

Σωκράτης
ἀλλ᾽ ἀπὸ ποίας; πειρῶ ἡμῖν εἰπεῖν ἀκριβῶς: καὶ (84a) εἰ μὴ βούλει ἀριθμεῖν, ἀλλὰ δεῖξον ἀπὸ ποίας.

SOCRATES. Immo a qua? Experire nobis dicere diligenter; et si non vis numerate, at ostende a qua.

SO. A quali igitur conare nobis liquido exprimere; quod nisi numerare velis, saltem a quali demonstra.

SOCRATES: But from what line?--tell me exactly; and if you would rather not reckon, try and show me the line.

Παῖς
ἀλλὰ μὰ τὸν Δία, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔγωγε οὐκ οἶδα.

ACOLITUS. Atqui per Iovem, o Socrates, ego nescio.

PU. Per Iovem o SOcrates haud novi.

BOY: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know.

Σωκράτης
ἐννοεῖς αὖ, ὦ Μένων, οὗ ἐστιν ἤδη βαδίζων ὅδε τοῦ ἀναμιμνῄσκεσθαι; ὅτι τὸ μὲν πρῶτον ᾔδει μὲν οὔ, ἥτις ἐστὶν ἡ τοῦ ὀκτώποδος χωρίου γραμμή, ὥσπερ οὐδὲ νῦν πω οἶδεν, ἀλλ᾽ οὖν ᾤετό γ᾽ αὐτὴν τότε εἰδέναι, καὶ θαρραλέως ἀπεκρίνετο ὡς εἰδώς, καὶ οὐχ ἡγεῖτο ἀπορεῖν: νῦν δὲ ἡγεῖται (84b) ἀπορεῖν ἤδη, καὶ ὥσπερ οὐκ οἶδεν, οὐδ᾽ οἴεται εἰδέναι.

SOCRATES. Advertis item, o Menon, quo iam venit ille reminiscendi? Quoniam primo scivit equidem minime, que sit octopedalis spatii linea, quemadmodum neque novit; sed existimabat istam tunc scire et audacter respondebat quasi noscens, et non arbitrabatur hesitate. Nunc autem arbitratur ambigere iam, et, velut non novit, neque noscere.

SO. Advertis iterum o Meno quo fit reminiscendo iam progressus. Nam ad ipso principio disputandi nequaquam noverat quæ sit octo pedum spatii linea, quemadmodum nec in pręsentia novit; verum tunc se nosse illam opinabatur, et audacter nimium quasi sciens respondebat, nec deesse sibi quicquam putabat; nunc autem egere se iam existimat, et ut ignorat, sic se ignorare fatetur.

SOCRATES: Do you see, Meno, what advances he has made in his power of recollection He did not know at first, and he does not know now, what is the side of a figure of eight feet: but then he thought that he knew, and answered confidently as if he knew, and had no difficulty; now he has a difficulty, and neither knows nor fancies that he knows.

Μένων
ἀληθῆ λέγεις.

MENON. Verum ais.

ME. Vera dicis.

MENO: True.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν νῦν βέλτιον ἔχει περὶ τὸ πρᾶγμα ὃ οὐκ ᾔδει;

SOCRATES. Nonne igitur melius se habet circa rem quam non novit?

SO. None rectius nunc ad id quod ignorat affectus est?

SOCRATES: Is he not better off in knowing his ignorance?

Μένων
καὶ τοῦτό μοι δοκεῖ.

MENON. Etiam hoc michi videtur.

ME. Hoc quoque arbitror.

MENO: I think that he is.

Σωκράτης
ἀπορεῖν οὖν αὐτὸν ποιήσαντες καὶ ναρκᾶν ὥσπερ ἡ νάρκη, μῶν τι ἐβλάψαμεν;

SOCRATES. Dubitare itaque eum facientes et narcissare tamquam narca, ergo quid obfuimus?

SO. Cum ergo ambigere ipsum compulerim, et piscis illius more stupidum fecerim, num aliquid obfuit?

SOCRATES: If we have made him doubt, and given him the ‘torpedo’s shock,’ have we done him any harm?

Μένων
οὐκ ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.

MENON. Minime michi videtur.

ME. Non ut mihi videtur.

MENO: I think not.

Σωκράτης
προὔργου γοῦν τι πεποιήκαμεν, ὡς ἔοικε, πρὸς τὸ ἐξευρεῖν ὅπῃ ἔχει: νῦν μὲν γὰρ καὶ ζητήσειεν ἂν ἡδέως οὐκ εἰδώς, τότε δὲ ῥᾳδίως ἂν καὶ πρὸς πολλοὺς καὶ πολλάκις (84c) ᾤετ᾽ ἂν εὖ λέγειν περὶ τοῦ διπλασίου χωρίου, ὡς δεῖ διπλασίαν τὴν γραμμὴν ἔχειν μήκει.

SOCRATES. Operosum igitur aliquo modo efficimus, ut videtur, ad inveniendum qualiter se habeat. Modo nimirum et investigabit utique libenter non agnoscens, tunc vero leviter ad multos et multotiens putabat certe bene dicere de duplo spatio, quod oportet duplam lineam habere longitudinem.

SO. Operepręcium itaque fecimus ad veritatem inveniendam; nunc enim utpote ignorantiæ suæ conscius libenter et sponte perquierere; at tunc sine controversia, et sæpe, et adversus quamplurimos loqui se recte arbitrabatur dum spatium duplum, duplam longitudine lineam habere oportet profiteretur.

SOCRATES: We have certainly, as would seem, assisted him in some degree to the discovery of the truth; and now he will wish to remedy his ignorance, but then he would have been ready to tell all the world again and again that the double space should have a double side.

Μένων
ἔοικεν.

MENON. Videtur.

ME. Videntur.

MENO: True.

Σωκράτης
οἴει οὖν ἂν αὐτὸν πρότερον ἐπιχειρῆσαι ζητεῖν ἢ μανθάνειν τοῦτο ὃ ᾤετο εἰδέναι οὐκ εἰδώς, πρὶν εἰς ἀπορίαν κατέπεσεν ἡγησάμενος μὴ εἰδέναι, καὶ ἐπόθησεν τὸ εἰδέναι;

SOCRATES. Putas igitur ipsum prius niti querere ac discere hoc, quod rebatur scire cum nescivisset, antequam in hesitationem dilapsus esset arbitratus non scire, ac affectabat scire?

SO. Num censes ipsum studuisse unquam, ut id vel inveniret, qua et suam ignorantiam re deprehendit, et scientia appetere cœpit?

SOCRATES: But do you suppose that he would ever have enquired into or learned what he fancied that he knew, though he was really ignorant of it, until he had fallen into perplexity under the idea that he did not know, and had desired to know?

Μένων
οὔ μοι δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες.

MENON. Neutiquam michi videtur, o Socrates.

ME. Nequaquam o Socrate.

MENO: I think not, Socrates.

Σωκράτης
ὤνητο ἄρα ναρκήσας;

SOCRATES. Lucratus est ergo narcissans?

SO. Profuit igitur sibi stupor eiusmodi.

SOCRATES: Then he was the better for the torpedo’s touch?

Μένων
δοκεῖ μοι.

MENON. Videtur michi.

ME. Videtur.

MENO: I think so.

Σωκράτης
σκέψαι δὴ ἐκ ταύτης τῆς ἀπορίας ὅτι καὶ ἀνευρήσει ζητῶν μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ, οὐδὲν ἀλλ᾽ ἢ ἐρωτῶντος ἐμοῦ καὶ οὐ διδάσκοντος: (84d) φύλαττε δὲ ἄν που εὕρῃς με διδάσκοντα καὶ διεξιόντα αὐτῷ, ἀλλὰ μὴ τὰς τούτου δόξας ἀνερωτῶντα. λέγε γάρ μοι σύ: οὐ τὸ μὲν τετράπουν τοῦτο ἡμῖν ἐστι χωρίον; μανθάνεις;

SOCRATES. Intuere sane ex hac dubitatione quoniam et [si] adinveniet querens mecum nichil nisi percunctante me et non docente. Observa sicubi invenias me docentem et exponentem ipsi, sed non istorum opiniones requirentem. Dic namque michi tu: nonne vero quadrupedale hoc nobis existit spatium? Perpendis?

SO. Considera itaque ex hac ambiguitate, quod iste una mecum investigans nihil me docente, sed potius interrogante reperiet. Obseva obsecro diligenter, num hunc docere aut ei demonstrare quicquam videar potius atque eiusmodi opiniones per singula elicere. Tu enim dic, hoc ne spatium quadrupedale est? Intellextin?

SOCRATES: Mark now the farther development. I shall only ask him, and not teach him, and he shall share the enquiry with me: and do you watch and see if you find me telling or explaining anything to him, instead of eliciting his opinion. Tell me, boy, is not this a square of four feet which I have drawn?

Παῖς
ἔγωγε.

ACOLITUS. Ego utique.

PU. Equidem.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
ἕτερον δὲ αὐτῷ προσθεῖμεν ἂν τουτὶ ἴσον;

SOCRATES. Alterum ipsi addamus istud equale?

SO. Num et hoc aliud æquale isti apponere licet?

SOCRATES: And now I add another square equal to the former one?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Quidni.

PU. Licet.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
καὶ τρίτον τόδε ἴσον ἑκατέρῳ τούτων;

SO. Et tertium istud utrique istorum æquale?

SOCRATES: And a third, which is equal to either of them?

Παῖς
ναί.

PU. Et istud.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
οὐκοῦν προσαναπληρωσαίμεθ᾽ ἂν τὸ ἐν τῇ γωνίᾳ τόδε;

SOCRATES. Igitur adimpleamus utique quod in angulo illud?

SO. Nonne hoc quod in angulo est complere licet?

SOCRATES: Suppose that we fill up the vacant corner?

Παῖς
πάνυ γε.

ACOLITUS. Penitus.

PU. Prorsus.

BOY: Very good.

Σωκράτης
ἄλλο τι οὖν γένοιτ᾽ ἂν τέτταρα ἴσα χωρία (84e) τάδε;

SOCRATES. Aliud quid ergo fiant quatuor equalia spatia hec?

SO. Hæc inde æqualia spatia quatuor nascerentur?

SOCRATES: Here, then, there are four equal spaces?

Παῖς
ναί.

ACOLITUS. Quidni.

PU. Ita.

BOY: Yes.

Σωκράτης
τί οὖν; τὸ ὅλον τόδε ποσαπλάσιον τοῦδε γίγνεται;

SOCRATES. Ergo totum hoc quantuplum huius efficitur?

SO. Totum igitur hoc quotuplum ad istud efficitur?

SOCRATES: And how many times larger is this space than this other?

Παῖς
τετραπλάσιον.

ACOLITUS. Quadruplum.

PU. Quadruplum.

BOY: Four times.

Σωκράτης
ἔδει δέ γε διπλάσιον ἡμῖν γενέσθαι: ἢ οὐ μέμνησαι;

SOCRATES. Oportuit quoque duplum nobis fieri; an non reminisceris?

SO. Oportebat autem duplum nobis contingere, num recordaris?

SOCRATES: But it ought to have been twice only, as you will remember.

Παῖς
πάνυ γε.

ACOLITUS. Omnifariam.

PU. Maxime.

BOY: True.

Permanent link

http://www2.hf.uio.no/common/apps/permlink/permlink.php?app=polyglotta&context=ctext&uid=71eab022-4b54-11e5-99e8-001cc4ddf0f4

Choose languages

Choose images, etc.

Choose languages

Choose display