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Plato: Phaedo

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ἔδοξε τοίνυν μοι, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, μετὰ ταῦτα, ἐπειδὴ ἀπειρήκη τὰ ὄντα σκοπῶν, δεῖν εὐλαβηθῆναι μὴ πάθοιμι ὅπερ οἱ τὸν ἥλιον ἐκλείποντα θεωροῦντες καὶ σκοπούμενοι πάσχουσιν·  διαφθείρονται γάρ που ἔνιοι τὰ ὄμματα, ἐὰν μὴ ἐν ὕδατι ἤ (99e) τινι τοιούτῳ σκοπῶνται τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ.  τοιοῦτόν τι καὶ ἐγὼ διενοήθην, καὶ ἔδεισα μὴ παντάπασι τὴν ψυχὴν τυφλωθείην βλέπων πρὸς τὰ πράγματα τοῖς ὄμμασι καὶ ἑκάστῃ τῶν αἰσθήσεων ἐπιχειρῶν ἅπτεσθαι αὐτῶν.  ἔδοξε δή μοι χρῆναι εἰς τοὺς λόγους καταφυγόντα ἐν ἐκείνοις σκοπεῖν τῶν ὄντων τὴν ἀλήθειαν.  ἴσως μὲν οὖν ᾧ εἰκάζω τρόπον (100a) τινὰ οὐκ ἔοικεν·  οὐ γὰρ πάνυ συγχωρῶ τὸν ἐν [τοῖς] λόγοις σκοπούμενον τὰ ὄντα ἐν εἰκόσι μᾶλλον σκοπεῖν ἢ τὸν ἐν [τοῖς] ἔργοις.  ἀλλ᾽ οὖν δὴ ταύτῃ γε ὥρμησα, καὶ ὑποθέμενος ἑκάστοτε λόγον ὃν ἂν κρίνω ἐρρωμενέστατον εἶναι, ἃ μὲν ἄν μοι δοκῇ τούτῳ συμφωνεῖν τίθημι ὡς ἀληθῆ ὄντα, καὶ περὶ αἰτίας καὶ περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων [ὄντων], ἃ δ᾽ ἂν μή, ὡς οὐκ ἀληθῆ.  βούλομαι δέ σοι σαφέστερον εἰπεῖν ἃ λέγω· οἶμαι γάρ σε νῦν οὐ μανθάνειν. 
SOCRATES. “Visum est igitur michi” inquit ille “post hec quoniam abdixi ea que sunt considerans, oportere vereri ne paterer quod hii qui solem deliquium sustinentem conspicientes et intuiti paciuntur.  Corrumpuntur namque interdum lumina, nisi in aqua sive aliquo tali contemplentur ymaginem ipsius.  Simile quid et ego adverti, et formidavi neve omnino anima excecarer respiciens ad res oculis et unoquoque sensuum probans attingere eas.  Visum est oportere ad sermones confugientem in illis attendere eorum que sunt veritatem.  Fors utique ut conicio modo quodam minime videtur simile;  non enim penitus adquiesco in sermonibus considerantem que sunt in ymaginibus magis considerare quam eum qui in operibus.  Verum utique hac motum sumpsi, et proponens undequaque racionem quamcumque validissimam iudico esse, quecumque profecto michi videntur huic consonare pono ut vera encia, et de causa et aliis universis que sunt; quecumque vero non, non ut vera.  Volo autem evidencius edisserere que dico; reor quippe te nunc minime advertere.” 
“Censui tandem cum in rebus (19) considerandis iam defessus essem, cavendum fore ne mihi idem accideret quod accidere (20) illis solet qui in solem deficientem figunt intuitum.  Orbantur enim nonnumquam visu, (21) nisi in aqua vel in eiusmodi aliquo imaginem eius aspiciant.  Tale quiddam ego reputa(22)vi, timuique ne animus mihi prorsus occaecaretur, si oculis res aspicerem sensuque quolibet (23) attingere illas aggrederer.  Quapropter operaeprecium fore censui ut ad rationes confu(24)gerem atque in illis rerum veritatem considerarem.  Forte vero nostra haec similitudo non (25) omni ex parte congruit.  Non enim prorsus assentior, eum qui res in rationibus contem(26)platur, in imaginibus aspicere potius quam qui in operibus intuetur.  Veruntamen hac (27) via iter direxi meum supponensque rationem semper quam esse iudico validissimam, quae(28)cunque huic consonare videantur, pono equidem tanquam vera idque ago et circa rerum (29) causas et circa reliqua omnia. Quae vero dissonant vera esse nego.  Volo equidem quae di(30)co tibi apertius explanare. Puto enim te nondum intelligere.” 
Socrates proceeded:--I thought that as I had failed in the contemplation of true existence, I ought to be careful that I did not lose the eye of my soul;  as people may injure their bodily eye by observing and gazing on the sun during an eclipse, unless they take the precaution of only looking at the image reflected in the water, or in some similar medium.  So in my own case, I was afraid that my soul might be blinded altogether if I looked at things with my eyes or tried to apprehend them by the help of the senses.  And I thought that I had better have recourse to the world of mind and seek there the truth of existence.  I dare say that the simile is not perfect  --for I am very far from admitting that he who contemplates existences through the medium of thought, sees them only ‘through a glass darkly,’ any more than he who considers them in action and operation.  However, this was the method which I adopted: I first assumed some principle which I judged to be the strongest, and then I affirmed as true whatever seemed to agree with this, whether relating to the cause or to anything else; and that which disagreed I regarded as untrue.  But I should like to explain my meaning more clearly, as I do not think that you as yet understand me. 
οὐ μὰ τὸν Δία, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης, οὐ σφόδρα. 
“Non, per Iovem” ait Cebes, “non multum.” 
“Per Iovem haud mul(31)tum”, inquit Cebes. 
No indeed, replied Cebes, not very well. 
(100b) ἀλλ᾽, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, ὧδε λέγω, οὐδὲν καινόν,  ἀλλ᾽ ἅπερ ἀεί τε ἄλλοτε καὶ ἐν τῷ παρεληλυθότι λόγῳ οὐδὲν πέπαυμαι λέγων.  ἔρχομαι [γὰρ] δὴ ἐπιχειρῶν σοι ἐπιδείξασθαι τῆς αἰτίας τὸ εἶδος ὃ πεπραγμάτευμαι,  καὶ εἶμι πάλιν ἐπ᾽ ἐκεῖνα τὰ πολυθρύλητα καὶ ἄρχομαι ἀπ᾽ ἐκείνων, ὑποθέμενος εἶναί τι καλὸν αὐτὸ καθ᾽ αὑτὸ καὶ ἀγαθὸν καὶ μέγα καὶ τἆλλα πάντα·  ἃ εἴ μοι δίδως τε καὶ συγχωρεῖς εἶναι ταῦτα, ἐλπίζω σοι ἐκ τούτων τὴν αἰτίαν ἐπιδείξειν καὶ ἀνευρήσειν ὡς ἀθάνατον [ἡ] ψυχή. 
“Verum” ait ille “quod dico, neutiquam recens,  immo que semper in alio tempore et in preterito sermone haut cessavi dicere.  Venio siquidem satagens tibi ostendere cause speciem quam investigavi,  et venio rursum ad ilia plurimum ruminata atque ordior ab illis, ponens esse quid honestum ipsum secundum se et bonum et magnum et alia universa;  que si michi das et concedis esse hec, spero tibi ex hiis causam ostendere, atque inventum ire quoniam immortale anima.” 
“Verum novum nihil adduco,  sed quae et saepe alias in superiori dis(32)putatione dicere nunquam destiti.  Pergo iam igitur demonstrare tibi causae speciem quam (33) continue pertractavi  ac redeo ad illa iam saepius decantata ab eisque exordior supponens (34) aliquid esse ipsum per se pulchrum et bonum et magnum et caetera omnia.  Quae qui(35)dem si tu mihi decederis eaque esse concesseris, spero tibi ex his ipsam causam demonstrare (36) itemque invenire esse animam immortalem." 
There is nothing new, he said, in what I am about to tell you;  but only what I have been always and everywhere repeating in the previous discussion and on other occasions:  I want to show you the nature of that cause which has occupied my thoughts.  I shall have to go back to those familiar words which are in the mouth of every one, and first of all assume that there is an absolute beauty and goodness and greatness, and the like;  grant me this, and I hope to be able to show you the nature of the cause, and to prove the immortality of the soul. 
(100c) ἀλλὰ μήν, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης, ὡς διδόντος σοι οὐκ ἂν φθάνοις περαίνων. 
“Verumptamen” ait Cebes “ut dante tibi non utique consequeris concludens.” 
"At vero quasi iam tibi concesserim, nihil ti(37)bi opus est praeludio quo minus iam concludas." 
Cebes said: You may proceed at once with the proof, for I grant you this. 
σκόπει δή, ἔφη, τὰ ἑξῆς ἐκείνοις ἐάν σοι συνδοκῇ ὥσπερ ἐμοί.  φαίνεται γάρ μοι, εἴ τί ἐστιν ἄλλο καλὸν πλὴν αὐτὸ τὸ καλόν, οὐδὲ δι᾽ ἓν ἄλλο καλὸν εἶναι ἢ διότι μετέχει ἐκείνου τοῦ καλοῦ·  καὶ πάντα δὴ οὕτως λέγω.  τῇ τοιᾷδε αἰτίᾳ συγχωρεῖς; 
“Attende autem” infit “consequencia illis utrum tibi complaceat veluti michi.  Videtur siquidem michi si quid aliud bonum, preter ipsum hoc bonum, neque propter aliud bonum esse quam quoniam participat illo bono;  et cuncta ad hunc modum aio.  Tali quoque cause accedis?” 
“Considera iam quae sequuntur dein(38)ceps, utrum in his mihi consentias.  Arbitror enim siquid est aliud pulchrum praeter ip(39)sum pulchrum, non ob aliud quippiam esse pulchrum quam quia pulchri ipius est par(40)ticeps.  Atque omnia dico similiter.  Nunquid ob hanc causam recipis?” 
Well, he said, then I should like to know whether you agree with me in the next step;  for I cannot help thinking, if there be anything beautiful other than absolute beauty should there be such, that it can be beautiful only in as far as it partakes of absolute beauty  --and I should say the same of everything.  Do you agree in this notion of the cause? 
συγχωρῶ, ἔφη. 
“Accedo” infit. 
“Recipio, equi(41)dem”, inquit. 
Yes, he said, I agree. 
οὐ τοίνυν, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, ἔτι μανθάνω οὐδὲ δύναμαι τὰς ἄλλας αἰτίας τὰς σοφὰς ταύτας γιγνώσκειν·  ἀλλ᾽ ἐάν τίς μοι λέγῃ (100d) δι᾽ ὅτι καλόν ἐστιν ὁτιοῦν, ἢ χρῶμα εὐανθὲς ἔχον ἢ σχῆμα ἢ ἄλλο ὁτιοῦν τῶν τοιούτων, τὰ μὲν ἄλλα χαίρειν ἐῶ,--ταράττομαι γὰρ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις πᾶσι--  τοῦτο δὲ ἁπλῶς καὶ ἀτέχνως καὶ ἴσως εὐήθως ἔχω παρ᾽ ἐμαυτῷ, ὅτι οὐκ ἄλλο τι ποιεῖ αὐτὸ καλὸν ἢ ἡ ἐκείνου τοῦ καλοῦ εἴτε παρουσία εἴτε κοινωνία εἴτε ὅπῃ δὴ καὶ ὅπως †προσγενομένη·  οὐ γὰρ ἔτι τοῦτο διισχυρίζομαι, ἀλλ᾽ ὅτι τῷ καλῷ πάντα τὰ καλὰ [γίγνεται] καλά.  τοῦτο γάρ μοι δοκεῖ ἀσφαλέστατον εἶναι καὶ ἐμαυτῷ ἀποκρίνασθαι καὶ ἄλλῳ, καὶ τούτου ἐχόμενος (100e) ἡγοῦμαι οὐκ ἄν ποτε πεσεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ἀσφαλὲς εἶναι καὶ ἐμοὶ καὶ ὁτῳοῦν ἄλλῳ ἀποκρίνασθαι ὅτι τῷ καλῷ τὰ καλὰ [γίγνεται] καλά·  ἢ οὐ καὶ σοὶ δοκεῖ; 
“Non igitur” ait ille “adhuc perpendo neque valeo alias causas, sapientes istas, cognoscere;  ceterum si quis michi dicat quare bonum est quidlibet sive quoniam colorem floridum habens seu quoniam figuram vel aliud quidlibet talium, sane reliqua gaudere sino - turbor quippe in aliis universis,-  hoc autem simpliciter et mirabiliter et fortasse temere habeo penes me ipsum, quia non aliud quid efficit ipsum bonum quam illius boni sive presencia sive communicacio sive qualitercumque et quomodo adherens;  nam nondum hoc perscrutor, verum quoniam bono cuncta bona.  Id siquidem michi videtur firmissimum esse et michi ipsi respondere atque alii, et hoc fultus autumo numquam labi, immo fixum esse, et michi et cuilibet alii respondere quoniam bono bona bona fiunt.  Vel non eciam tibi videtur?” 
“Ergo nondum ultra percipio neque possum caeteras istas praeclaras cau(42)sas cognoscere.  Siquis autem mihi dixerit quare pulchrum sit quodlibet, videlicet quia (43) vel colorem habeat floridum vel figuram vel aliud quodvis talium, caetera equidem va(44)lere sino. In caeteris enim omnibus soleo perturbari.  Id vero unum simpliciter atque pro(45)culdubio et forte iam inepte penes me teneo: nihil aliud esse quod aliquid faciat pul(46)chrum quam ipsius pulchri sive praesentiam sive communionem sive qualicunque ra(47)tione et quocunque modo id proveniat.  Neque enim id adhuc affirmarem, sed pulchro (48) pulchra omnia esse pulchra.  Id mihi videtur tutissimum tam mihi quam alijs responde(49)re, atque huic fundamento innixus puto nunquam cadere, sed et me et quemvis alium (50) tuto respondere posse, quacunque pulchra sunt, ipso pulchro fieri pulchra.  Nonne et (51) ipse consentis?” 
He proceeded: I know nothing and can understand nothing of any other of those wise causes which are alleged;  and if a person says to me that the bloom of colour, or form, or any such thing is a source of beauty, I leave all that, which is only confusing to me,  and simply and singly, and perhaps foolishly, hold and am assured in my own mind that nothing makes a thing beautiful but the presence and participation of beauty in whatever way or manner obtained;  for as to the manner I am uncertain, but I stoutly contend that by beauty all beautiful things become beautiful.  This appears to me to be the safest answer which I can give, either to myself or to another, and to this I cling, in the persuasion that this principle will never be overthrown, and that to myself or to any one who asks the question, I may safely reply, That by beauty beautiful things become beautiful.  Do you not agree with me? 
δοκεῖ. 
CEBES. “Videtur.” 
“Consentio equidem”, inquit Cebes. 
I do. 
καὶ μεγέθει ἄρα τὰ μεγάλα μεγάλα καὶ τὰ μείζω μείζω, καὶ σμικρότητι τὰ ἐλάττω ἐλάττω; 
SOCRATES. “Et magnitudine igitur magna magna et maiora maiora, atque parvitate minora minora?” 
“Ergo et quae magna sunt, ipsa (52) magnitudine esse magna, et quae maiora sunt, similiter esse maiora, et quae minora, par(53)vitate esse minora.” 
And that by greatness only great things become great and greater greater, and by smallness the less become less? 
ναί. 
CEBES. “Eciam.” 
“Ita est.” 
True. 
οὐδὲ σὺ ἄρ᾽ ἂν ἀποδέχοιο εἴ τίς τινα φαίη ἕτερον ἑτέρου τῇ κεφαλῇ μείζω εἶναι, καὶ τὸν ἐλάττω τῷ αὐτῷ τούτῳ (101a) ἐλάττω, ἀλλὰ διαμαρτύροιο ἂν ὅτι σὺ μὲν οὐδὲν ἄλλο λέγεις ἢ ὅτι τὸ μεῖζον πᾶν ἕτερον ἑτέρου οὐδενὶ ἄλλῳ μεῖζόν ἐστιν ἢ μεγέθει, καὶ διὰ τοῦτο μεῖζον, διὰ τὸ μέγεθος, τὸ δὲ ἔλαττον οὐδενὶ ἄλλῳ ἔλαττον ἢ σμικρότητι, καὶ διὰ τοῦτο ἔλαττον, διὰ τὴν σμικρότητα,  φοβούμενος οἶμαι μή τίς σοι ἐναντίος λόγος ἀπαντήσῃ, ἐὰν τῇ κεφαλῇ μείζονά τινα φῇς εἶναι καὶ ἐλάττω, πρῶτον μὲν τῷ αὐτῷ τὸ μεῖζον μεῖζον εἶναι καὶ τὸ ἔλαττον ἔλαττον,  ἔπειτα τῇ κεφαλῇ σμικρᾷ οὔσῃ τὸν (101b) μείζω μείζω εἶναι, καὶ τοῦτο δὴ τέρας εἶναι, τὸ σμικρῷ τινι μέγαν τινὰ εἶναι·  ἢ οὐκ ἂν φοβοῖο ταῦτα; 
SOCRATES. “Neque tu itaque recipias si quis aliquem dicat alterum altero capite maiorem esse necnon minorem eodem modo minorem esse, verum testificeris utique quoniam tu quidem nichil aliud asseris quam quia maius omne alterum altero nichilo alio maius est quam magnitudine, et ob hoc maius, ob magnitudinem, sane minus nichilo alio minus quam exiguitate et ob hoc minora, ob exiguitatem,  metuens, reor, ne que tibi adversans racio obviet, si capite maiorem quem dixeris esse et minorem, primum autem eodem maius maius esse et minus minus;  deinde capite modicum cum sit maiorem maiorem esse, et hoc quidem portentum esse, modico quodam magnum aliquem esse?  Vel utique non metuas ista?” 
“Igitur neque tu quidem assentieris si quis aliquem dixerit (54) alio quodam capite esse maiorem, atque eum qui minor est, eodem capite esse minorem, sed (513, 1) testificaberis te quidem nihil aliud esse dicturum, quam omne maius alio non alia re ulla (2) quam magnitudine esse maius, atque ob hoc maius, ob ipsam scilicet magnitudinem. Minus (3) autem, nullo similiter alio quam parvitate et propter hoc esse minus, propter ipsam vide(4)licet parvitatem,  metuens ut puto ne siquem dixeris capite maiorem esse vel minorem, (5) quispiam tibi sic obijciat. Primum quidem eadem re maius fore maius et minus fore (6) minus,  deinde quod capite quae res parva est, maiorem affirmes esse maiorem. Hoc autem (7) dicet monstro esse persimile, ut paulo aliquo magnum quiddam esse dicas.  Nonne haec me(8)tueres?” 
Then if a person were to remark that A is taller by a head than B, and B less by a head than A, you would refuse to admit his statement, and would stoutly contend that what you mean is only that the greater is greater by, and by reason of, greatness, and the less is less only by, and by reason of, smallness;  and thus you would avoid the danger of saying that the greater is greater and the less less by the measure of the head, which is the same in both,  and would also avoid the monstrous absurdity of supposing that the greater man is greater by reason of the head, which is small.  You would be afraid to draw such an inference, would you not? 
καὶ ὁ Κέβης γελάσας, ἔγωγε, ἔφη. 
Et Cebes ridens: “Ego quidem” infit, 
Tunc Cebes subridens, “equidem”, inquit. 
Indeed, I should, said Cebes, laughing. 
οὐκοῦν, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, τὰ δέκα τῶν ὀκτὼ δυοῖν πλείω εἶναι, καὶ διὰ ταύτην τὴν αἰτίαν ὑπερβάλλειν, φοβοῖο ἂν λέγειν, ἀλλὰ μὴ πλήθει καὶ διὰ τὸ πλῆθος;  καὶ τὸ δίπηχυ τοῦ πηχυαίου ἡμίσει μεῖζον εἶναι ἀλλ᾽ οὐ μεγέθει;  ὁ αὐτὸς γάρ που φόβος. 
“Numquid igitur” ait ille “decem octo duobus plura esse, et ob hanc causam excedere, timeasne dicere, sed non multitudine atque propter multitudinem?  Necnon bicubitum cubitali medietate maius esse sed non magnitudine?  Eadem enim formido.” 
“Nonne similiter quoque metueres dice(9)re”, inquit, “decem plura quam octo esse duobus, atque ob hanc causam superare, potius quam mul(10)titudine atque propter multitudinem?  Ac similiter bicubitum cubitali maius esse dimidio (11) potius quam multitudine?  Id enim similiter est metuendum.” 
In like manner you would be afraid to say that ten exceeded eight by, and by reason of, two; but would say by, and by reason of, number;  or you would say that two cubits exceed one cubit not by a half, but by magnitude?  -for there is the same liability to error in all these cases. 
πάνυ γ᾽, ἔφη. 
CEBES. “Penitus nempe” ait, 
“Omnino.” 
Very true, he said. 
τί δέ; ἑνὶ ἑνὸς προστεθέντος τὴν πρόσθεσιν αἰτίαν εἶναι (101c) τοῦ δύο γενέσθαι ἢ διασχισθέντος τὴν σχίσιν οὐκ εὐλαβοῖο ἂν λέγειν;  καὶ μέγα ἂν βοῴης ὅτι οὐκ οἶσθα ἄλλως πως ἕκαστον γιγνόμενον ἢ μετασχὸν τῆς ἰδίας οὐσίας ἑκάστου οὗ ἂν μετάσχῃ,  καὶ ἐν τούτοις οὐκ ἔχεις ἄλλην τινὰ αἰτίαν τοῦ δύο γενέσθαι ἀλλ᾽ ἢ τὴν τῆς δυάδος μετάσχεσιν, καὶ δεῖν τούτου μετασχεῖν τὰ μέλλοντα δύο ἔσεσθαι, καὶ μονάδος ὃ ἂν μέλλῃ ἓν ἔσεσθαι,  τὰς δὲ σχίσεις ταύτας καὶ προσθέσεις καὶ τὰς ἄλλας τὰς τοιαύτας κομψείας ἐῴης ἂν χαίρειν, παρεὶς ἀποκρίνασθαι τοῖς σεαυτοῦ σοφωτέροις·  σὺ δὲ δεδιὼς ἄν, τὸ (101d) λεγόμενον, τὴν σαυτοῦ σκιὰν καὶ τὴν ἀπειρίαν, ἐχόμενος ἐκείνου τοῦ ἀσφαλοῦς τῆς ὑποθέσεως, οὕτως ἀποκρίναιο ἄν.  εἰ δέ τις αὐτῆς τῆς ὑποθέσεως ἔχοιτο, χαίρειν ἐῴης ἂν καὶ οὐκ ἀποκρίναιο ἕως ἂν τὰ ἀπ᾽ ἐκείνης ὁρμηθέντα σκέψαιο εἴ σοι ἀλλήλοις συμφωνεῖ ἢ διαφωνεῖ·  ἐπειδὴ δὲ ἐκείνης αὐτῆς δέοι σε διδόναι λόγον, ὡσαύτως ἂν διδοίης, ἄλλην αὖ ὑπόθεσιν ὑποθέμενος ἥτις τῶν ἄνωθεν βελτίστη φαίνοιτο, (101e) ἕως ἐπί τι ἱκανὸν ἔλθοις,  ἅμα δὲ οὐκ ἂν φύροιο ὥσπερ οἱ ἀντιλογικοὶ περί τε τῆς ἀρχῆς διαλεγόμενος καὶ τῶν ἐξ ἐκείνης ὡρμημένων, εἴπερ βούλοιό τι τῶν ὄντων εὑρεῖν;  ἐκείνοις μὲν γὰρ ἴσως οὐδὲ εἷς περὶ τούτου λόγος οὐδὲ φροντίς·  ἱκανοὶ γὰρ ὑπὸ σοφίας ὁμοῦ πάντα κυκῶντες ὅμως δύνασθαι αὐτοὶ αὑτοῖς ἀρέσκειν·  σὺ δ᾽, εἴπερ εἶ τῶν φιλοσόφων, (102a) οἶμαι ἂν ὡς ἐγὼ λέγω ποιοῖς. 
SOCRATES. “Quid sane? Uni uno apposito apposicionem causam esse ut duo fiant seu discisso discissionem non verearis utique dicere?  Et magna voce clames quoniam nequaquam arbitramur alio quolibet modo singulum factum quam participans propria essencia singuli quocumque participet,  et in hiis minime habes aliquam aliam causam ut duo fiant, sed binarii participacionem, et oportere hoc participare que debent duo fore, atque unitate quodcumque debeat unum fore,  porra scissiones has et apposiciones atque alias huiusmodi compsias sinas nempe valere, permittens respondere se ipso sapiencioribus;  tu veritus quoque, ut solet dici, sui ipsius umbram et impericiam, fultus illa soliditate ypotheseos, ita respondeas equidem.  Si vera quis ipsa ypothesi innitatur, valere sinas quidem et non respondeas, donec que ab illa oriantur consideres utrum tibi ad invicem consonent vel discrepent;  quoniam quidem illius ipsius oporteat te dare racionem, similiter certe metuas aliam iterum ypothesim ponens que superiorum optima videatur quousque in quidpiam ydoneum venias,  simulque numquam misceas quemadmodum antilogici de principio disputans et de hiis que ex illo oriuntur, si velis quid eorum que sunt invenire?  Illis namque forsan nullus super hoc sermo neque sollicitudo;  ydonei enim a sapiencia simul omnia movendo confundentes tamen posse ipsi ipsis placere;  tu autem si es de philosophis, autumo quoque velut ego dico facies.” 
“Quid vero si uni (12) addatur unum, additamentum ipsum esse causam ut duo fiant, vel si dividatur, divisionem (13) ipsam duorum esse causam, dicere non formidares?   Altiusque exclamares nescire te quo(14)nam alio pacto quicquam fiat, nisi participatione quadam essentiae unicuique propriae, cu(15)ius sit particeps?  Atque in his nullam aliam habere te causam, cur duo fiant praeter duitatis (16) ipsius participationem, sed oportere huius participia fore, quaecunque futura sunt duo, et (17) similiter unitatis quodcunque futurum sit unum?  Has vero divisiones adiunctionesque et cae(18)teras eiusmodi argutias valere sineres relinqueresque sapientioribus te per eas pro arbitrio (19 responsuris.  [marg: Proverbium Tuam umbram metuis] Tu vero tuam, quemadmodum dici solet, metuens umbram et imperitiam at(20)que innixus tutissimae illi positioni, sic utique responderes?  At vero si quis eandem positio(21)nem complexus instaret velere sineres, neque prius responderes quam quae inde manant (22) considerasses utrum consonent invicem aut dissonent?  Vbi vero illius ipsius rationem o(23)porteret afferre, eodem modo afferres atque aliam rursus positionem adduceres quae supe(24)riorum optima videretur, quoad ad aliquid sufficiens pervenires?  Nunquam vero simul (25) confunderes contentiosorum more, ubi et de principio et de his quae a principio deducun(26)tur disputas, si modo velles eorum aliquid quae vere sunt invenire?  Nam illis fortasse nul(27)lus hac de re sermo est, nulla cura.  Possunt enim prae sapientia et simul omnia commiscere (28) et tamen sibimet placere.  Tu vero si ex philosophorum numero es, quae dico, ut arbitror, (29) facies.” 
Again, would you not be cautious of affirming that the addition of one to one, or the division of one, is the cause of two?  And you would loudly asseverate that you know of no way in which anything comes into existence except by participation in its own proper essence,  and consequently, as far as you know, the only cause of two is the participation in duality--this is the way to make two, and the participation in one is the way to make one.  You would say: I will let alone puzzles of division and addition--wiser heads than mine may answer them;  inexperienced as I am, and ready to start, as the proverb says, at my own shadow, I cannot afford to give up the sure ground of a principle.  And if any one assails you there, you would not mind him, or answer him, until you had seen whether the consequences which follow agree with one another or not,  and when you are further required to give an explanation of this principle, you would go on to assume a higher principle, and a higher, until you found a resting-place in the best of the higher;  but you would not confuse the principle and the consequences in your reasoning, like the Eristics--at least if you wanted to discover real existence.  Not that this confusion signifies to them, who never care or think about the matter at all,  for they have the wit to be well pleased with themselves however great may be the turmoil of their ideas.  But you, if you are a philosopher, will certainly do as I say. 
ἀληθέστατα, ἔφη, λέγεις, ὅ τε Σιμμίας ἅμα καὶ ὁ Κέβης. 
“Verissimum” inquit “dicis” Simmias pariter et Cebes. 
“Verissima loqueris”, inquit Simmias et Cebes. 
What you say is most true, said Simmias and Cebes, both speaking at once. 
Ἐχεκράτης
νὴ Δία, ὦ Φαίδων, εἰκότως γε· θαυμαστῶς γάρ μοι δοκεῖ ὡς ἐναργῶς τῷ καὶ σμικρὸν νοῦν ἔχοντι εἰπεῖν ἐκεῖνος ταῦτα. 
ECHECRATES. Per Iovem, O Fedon, congrue profecto; mirabiliter enim michi videtur quam evidenter eciam modicam mentem habenti dicere ille ista. 
ECHE. Per Iovem, o Phaedo, meri(30)to admodum consenserunt. Mirifice enim ille mihi videtur rem ipsam vel hebetissimo cuique (31) explanasse. 
ECHECRATES: Yes, Phaedo; and I do not wonder at their assenting. Any one who has the least sense will acknowledge the wonderful clearness of Socrates’ reasoning. 
Φαίδων
πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ὦ Ἐχέκρατες, καὶ πᾶσι τοῖς παροῦσιν ἔδοξεν. 
FEDON. Prorsus, O Echecrate, et cunctis presentibus visum est; et enim nobis absentibus nunc et audientibus. 
PHAE. Sic prorsus, o Echecrates, praesentibus omnibus similiter visum fuit. 
PHAEDO: Certainly, Echecrates; and such was the feeling of the whole company at the time. 
Ἐχεκράτης
καὶ γὰρ ἡμῖν τοῖς ἀποῦσι, νῦν δὲ ἀκούουσιν. ἀλλὰ τίνα δὴ ἦν τὰ μετὰ ταῦτα λεχθέντα; 
ECHECRATES. Verum que erant ea que post hec dicta sunt? 
(32) ECHE. Quid mirum? Cum nobis quoque qui non interfuimus, nunc similiter audientibus (33) videatur. Verum quaenam post haec dicta fuerunt? 
ECHECRATES: Yes, and equally of ourselves, who were not of the company, and are now listening to your recital. But what followed? 
Φαίδων
ὡς μὲν ἐγὼ οἶμαι, ἐπεὶ αὐτῷ ταῦτα συνεχωρήθη, (102b) καὶ ὡμολογεῖτο εἶναί τι ἕκαστον τῶν εἰδῶν καὶ τούτων τἆλλα μεταλαμβάνοντα αὐτῶν τούτων τὴν ἐπωνυμίαν ἴσχειν, τὸ δὴ μετὰ ταῦτα ἠρώτα, εἰ δή, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, 
ταῦτα οὕτως λέγεις, ἆρ᾽ οὐχ, ὅταν Σιμμίαν Σωκράτους φῇς μείζω εἶναι, Φαίδωνος δὲ ἐλάττω, λέγεις τότ᾽ εἶναι ἐν τῷ Σιμμίᾳ ἀμφότερα, καὶ μέγεθος καὶ σμικρότητα; 
FEDON. Velut opinor ego, quando quidem ipsi talia concessa sunt, bet fatebatur esse quid unaqueque speeierum et hiis participancia ipsorum horum denominacionem habere, hoc quidem post hec interrogabat: “Si autem” infit ille  “hec ita dicis, nonne, cum Simmiam Socrate dicis maiorem esse, Fedone vera minorem, ais tunc in Simmia esse utraque, et magnitudinem et exiguitatem?” 
PHAE. Vt equidem arbitror, postquam (34) haec illi Socrati concesserunt consenseruntque speciem quamlibet aliquid esse et quae ha(35)rum participia sunt ipsarum denominationem habere, deinceps hunc in modum interro(36)gavit: “Si  haec ita se habent, nonne quando Simmiam dicis, Socrate, quidem maiorem esse, (37) Phaedone vero minorem, tunc affirmas in Simmia utrunque esse et magnitudinem simul (38) et parvitatem?” 
PHAEDO: After all this had been admitted, and they had that ideas exist, and that other things participate in them and derive their names from them, Socrates, if I remember rightly, said:--  This is your way of speaking; and yet when you say that Simmias is greater than Socrates and less than Phaedo, do you not predicate of Simmias both greatness and smallness? 
ἔγωγε. 
CEBES. “Ego sane.” 
“Equidem.” 
Yes, I do. 
ἀλλὰ γάρ, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, ὁμολογεῖς τὸ τὸν Σιμμίαν ὑπερέχειν Σωκράτους οὐχ ὡς τοῖς ῥήμασι λέγεται οὕτω καὶ τὸ ἀληθὲς (102c) ἔχειν;  οὐ γάρ που πεφυκέναι Σιμμίαν ὑπερέχειν τούτῳ, τῷ Σιμμίαν εἶναι, ἀλλὰ τῷ μεγέθει ὃ τυγχάνει ἔχων·  οὐδ᾽ αὖ Σωκράτους ὑπερέχειν ὅτι Σωκράτης ὁ Σωκράτης ἐστίν, ἀλλ᾽ ὅτι σμικρότητα ἔχει ὁ Σωκράτης πρὸς τὸ ἐκείνου μέγεθος; 
“Verum enim vero” infit ille “fateris ‘Simmiam superare Socratem’ non uti verbis dicitur ita et verum se habere?  Non enim aptum natum esse Simmiam superexcedere eo quod est Simmiam esse, immo magnitudine quam contingit habere;  neque iterum Socratem superexcedere quoniam Socrates Socrates est, ceterum quia exiguitatem habet Socrates ad illius magnitudinem?” 
“Attamen Simmiam confiteris excedere Socratem non ita re(39)vera ut verba sonant.  Non enim ita natura institutum esse existimas Simmiam ut ea ra(40)tione superet qua est Simmias, sed magnitudine quam habet,  neque rursus Socratem eo quod (41) Socrates est excedi, sed quia parvitatem prae magnitudine illius habeat.” 
But still you allow that Simmias does not really exceed Socrates, as the words may seem to imply, because he is Simmias, but by reason of the size which he has;  just as Simmias does not exceed Socrates because he is Simmias,  any more than because Socrates is Socrates, but because he has smallness when compared with the greatness of Simmias? 
ἀληθῆ. 
CEBES. “Vera.” 
“Vera loqueris.” 
True. 
οὐδέ γε αὖ ὑπὸ Φαίδωνος ὑπερέχεσθαι τῷ ὅτι Φαίδων ὁ Φαίδων ἐστίν, ἀλλ᾽ ὅτι μέγεθος ἔχει ὁ Φαίδων πρὸς τὴν Σιμμίου σμικρότητα; 
SOCRATES. “Neque item a Fedone superari eo quod Fedo Fedo sit, immo quoniam magnitudinem habeat Fedo ad Simmie parvitatem?” 
(42) “Similiter nec a Phaedone superari eo quod Phaedo sit Phaedo, sed quia Phaedo prae Sim(43)miae parvitate magnitudinem habet.” 
And if Phaedo exceeds him in size, this is not because Phaedo is Phaedo, but because Phaedo has greatness relatively to Simmias, who is comparatively smaller? 
ἔστι ταῦτα. 
CEBES. “Sunt hec.” 
“Ita est.” 
That is true. 
οὕτως ἄρα ὁ Σιμμίας ἐπωνυμίαν ἔχει σμικρός τε καὶ μέγας εἶναι, ἐν μέσῳ ὢν ἀμφοτέρων, τοῦ μὲν τῷ μεγέθει (102d) ὑπερέχειν τὴν σμικρότητα ὑπέχων, τῷ δὲ τὸ μέγεθος τῆς σμικρότητος παρέχων ὑπερέχον.  καὶ ἅμα μειδιάσας, ἔοικα, ἔφη, καὶ συγγραφικῶς ἐρεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ οὖν ἔχει γέ που ὡς λέγω. 
SOCRATES. “Sic igitur Simmias denominacionem habet pusillusque et magnus esse, in medio ens utrorumque, huius autem eo quod magnitudine parvitatem superet supergressus, illi vero magnitudinem parvitatis superans.”  Unaque subridens: “Visus sum” ait “eciam conscriptive dicere, verum habet se aliquo modo ut dico.” 
“Sic itaque Simmias denominationem par(44)vi habet et magni. Siquidem in amborum medio positus alterius quidem parvitatem ma(45)gnitudine superat, alterius vero magnitudini parvitate cedit.”  Et simul subridens inquit: (46) “Videor equidem affectatius descripsisse. Veruntamen est ut dico”. 
And therefore Simmias is said to be great, and is also said to be small, because he is in a mean between them, exceeding the smallness of the one by his greatness, and allowing the greatness of the other to exceed his smallness.  He added, laughing, I am speaking like a book, but I believe that what I am saying is true. 
συνέφη. 
Concessit. 
“Sic apparet.” 
Simmias assented. 
λέγω δὴ τοῦδ᾽ ἕνεκα, βουλόμενος δόξαι σοὶ ὅπερ ἐμοί.  ἐμοὶ γὰρ φαίνεται οὐ μόνον αὐτὸ τὸ μέγεθος οὐδέποτ᾽ ἐθέλειν ἅμα μέγα καὶ σμικρὸν εἶναι, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ἐν ἡμῖν μέγεθος οὐδέποτε προσδέχεσθαι τὸ σμικρὸν οὐδ᾽ ἐθέλειν ὑπερέχεσθαι,  ἀλλὰ δυοῖν τὸ ἕτερον, ἢ φεύγειν καὶ ὑπεκχωρεῖν ὅταν αὐτῷ (102e) προσίῃ τὸ ἐναντίον, τὸ σμικρόν, ἢ προσελθόντος ἐκείνου ἀπολωλέναι·  ὑπομένον δὲ καὶ δεξάμενον τὴν σμικρότητα οὐκ ἐθέλειν εἶναι ἕτερον ἢ ὅπερ ἦν.  ὥσπερ ἐγὼ δεξάμενος καὶ ὑπομείνας τὴν σμικρότητα, καὶ ἔτι ὢν ὅσπερ εἰμί, οὗτος ὁ αὐτὸς σμικρός εἰμι·  ἐκεῖνο δὲ οὐ τετόλμηκεν μέγα ὂν σμικρὸν εἶναι·  ὡς δ᾽ αὕτως καὶ τὸ σμικρὸν τὸ ἐν ἡμῖν οὐκ ἐθέλει ποτὲ μέγα γίγνεσθαι οὐδὲ εἶναι, οὐδ᾽ ἄλλο οὐδὲν τῶν ἐναντίων, ἔτι ὂν ὅπερ ἦν, ἅμα τοὐναντίον γίγνεσθαί τε (103a) καὶ εἶναι,  ἀλλ᾽ ἤτοι ἀπέρχεται ἢ ἀπόλλυται ἐν τούτῳ τῷ παθήματι. 
SOCRATES. “Aio vero ea propter, volens ut videretur tibi quod michi;  michi autem videtur non solum ipsa magnitudo numquam velle simul magnum et parvum esse, verum eciam que in nobis magnitudo numquam suscipere parvum neque velle superari,  immo duorum alterum, vel fugere et cedere quando sibi advenerit contrarium, scilicet parvum, vel adveniente illo disperire;  expectans autem et recipiens exiguitatem nolle esse alterum quam quod fuerat.  Velut ego suscipiens et sustinens parvitatem et adhuc, cum sim ceu sum, ipse idem pusillus sum;  illud autem non est ausum magnum ens exiguum esse;  non dissimiliter modicum quod in nobis non vult umquam magnum fieri neque esse, neque aliud nullum contrariorum, adhuc cum sit quod fuerat, simul contrarium fierique et esse,  immo vel abscedit vel interit in hac passione.” 
“Dico (47) autem propterea, quia cupio videri tibi quod et mihi videtur.  Opinor enim non solum ma(48)gnitudinem ipsam nunquam velle magnam simul parvamque esse, verumetiam neque hanc (49) quae in nobis est magnitudinem unquam recipere parvitatem, neque superari velle,  sed e (50) duobus alterum accidere, vel fugere seque subtrahere quando adventat contraria parvi(51)tas, vel cum advenerit, interire,  nolle autem expectare atque in parvitate recipienda (52) aliud esse quam erat.  Quemadmodum ego cum susceperim sustinuerimque parvitatem, (53) quandiu is ipse sum qui sum, sic ipsemet sum parvus.  Illud autem magnum quod ip(54)sum est, nunquam sustinuit esse parvum,  similiter parvum quod est in nobis, nunquam (514, 1) vult magnum aut fieri aut esse. Neque aliud quicquam contrarium, quamdiu est id quod (2) erat patitur simul contrarium fieri aut esse,  sed aut abit aut perit cum adventat contrarium.” 
I speak as I do because I want you to agree with me in thinking,  not only that absolute greatness will never be great and also small, but that greatness in us or in the concrete will never admit the small or admit of being exceeded:  instead of this, one of two things will happen, either the greater will fly or retire before the opposite, which is the less, or at the approach of the less has already ceased to exist;  but will not, if allowing or admitting of smallness, be changed by that;  even as I, having received and admitted smallness when compared with Simmias, remain just as I was, and am the same small person.  And as the idea of greatness cannot condescend ever to be or become small,  in like manner the smallness in us cannot be or become great; nor can any other opposite which remains the same ever be or become its own opposite,  but either passes away or perishes in the change. 
παντάπασιν, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης, οὕτω φαίνεταί μοι. 
“Funditus” inquit Cebes “sic apparet michi.” 
(3) “Ita prorsus existimo”, inquit Cebes. 
That, replied Cebes, is quite my notion. 
καί τις εἶπε τῶν παρόντων ἀκούσας--ὅστις δ᾽ ἦν, οὐ σαφῶς μέμνημαι--  πρὸς θεῶν, οὐκ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἡμῖν λόγοις αὐτὸ τὸ ἐναντίον τῶν νυνὶ λεγομένων ὡμολογεῖτο,  ἐκ τοῦ ἐλάττονος τὸ μεῖζον γίγνεσθαι καὶ ἐκ τοῦ μείζονος τὸ ἔλαττον, καὶ ἀτεχνῶς αὕτη εἶναι ἡ γένεσις τοῖς ἐναντίοις, ἐκ τῶν ἐναντίων; 
Et quidam dixit ex eis qui presentes erant cum audisset - quis autem esset non certe reminiscor -:  “Pro diis, nonne in prioribus nobis sermonibus ipsum contrarium nunc dictorum concedebatur,  ex maiore minus fieri et ex minore maius, atque mirabiliter ipsa esse generacio contrariis ex contrariis? 
Tunc quidam eorum qui aderant, haec audiens, (4) quis autem ille fuerit non satis memini,  “Dij boni,” inquit, “nonne in superioribus contrarium (5) eorum quae dicuntur nobis est concessum,  videlicet ex minori maius fieri, atque ex maiori (6) minus, esseque proculdubio generationem contrarium ex contrarijs? 
Hereupon one of the company, though I do not exactly remember which of them, said:  In heaven's name, is not this the direct contrary of what was admitted before  --that out of the greater came the less and out of the less the greater, and that opposites were simply generated from opposites; 
νῦν δέ μοι δοκεῖ λέγεσθαι ὅτι τοῦτο οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο. 
Impresenciarum autem michi videtur dici quoniam hoc numquam fiat.” 
Nunc autem videmini (7) fieri id non posse dicere.” 
but now this principle seems to be utterly denied. 
καὶ ὁ Σωκράτης παραβαλὼν τὴν κεφαλὴν καὶ ἀκούσας, (103b) ἀνδρικῶς, ἔφη, ἀπεμνημόνευκας, οὐ μέντοι ἐννοεῖς τὸ διαφέρον τοῦ τε νῦν λεγομένου καὶ τοῦ τότε.  τότε μὲν γὰρ ἐλέγετο ἐκ τοῦ ἐναντίου πράγματος τὸ ἐναντίον πρᾶγμα γίγνεσθαι, νῦν δέ, ὅτι αὐτὸ τὸ ἐναντίον ἑαυτῷ ἐναντίον οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο, οὔτε τὸ ἐν ἡμῖν οὔτε τὸ ἐν τῇ φύσει.  τότε μὲν γάρ, ὦ φίλε, περὶ τῶν ἐχόντων τὰ ἐναντία ἐλέγομεν, ἐπονομάζοντες αὐτὰ τῇ ἐκείνων ἐπωνυμίᾳ, νῦν δὲ περὶ ἐκείνων αὐτῶν ὧν ἐνόντων ἔχει τὴν ἐπωνυμίαν τὰ ὀνομαζόμενα·  (103c) αὐτὰ δ᾽ ἐκεῖνα οὐκ ἄν ποτέ φαμεν ἐθελῆσαι γένεσιν ἀλλήλων δέξασθαι.  καὶ ἅμα βλέψας πρὸς τὸν Κέβητα εἶπεν, ἆρα μή που, ὦ Κέβης, ἔφη, καὶ σέ τι τούτων ἐτάραξεν ὧν ὅδε εἶπεν; 
Atque Socrates apprehendens caput et audiens: “Viriliter” infit “memorasti; non tamen perpendis discrepanciam nunc dicti et tunc.  Tunc quippe inquiebatur ex contraria re contrariam rem generari, nunc vero quoniam ipsum contrarium sibi ipsi contrarium numquam fiat, neque in nobis neque in natura.  Tunc siquidem, O amice, de habentibus contraria ‘O diximus agnominantes ipsa illorum denominacione, nunc sane de illis ipsis quorum inherencium habent denominacionem que sunt nominata;  ipsa quoque illa numquam dicimus velle generacionem ab invicem recipere.”  Simulque respiciens in Cebetem infit: “Numquid in aliquo” dixit, “O Cebes, et te quid horum turbavit que is dixit?” 
Cum vero Socrates admovens caput auscultasset, “viriliter”, inquit, (8) “id recordatus es. Non tamen intelligis differentiam inter id quod modo dictum est, atque il(9)lud superius.  Tunc enim dicebatur ex contraria re, rem contrariam fieri, nunc vero con(10)trarium ipsum sibimet contrarium fieri nunquam, neque quod in nobis, neque quod in natu(11)ra contrarium est.  Tunc quidem, o amice, de his quae habent contraria dicebamus, haec il(12)lorum cognomine appellantes. At nunc de illis ipsis loquimur quae his insunt quorumve (13) praesentia cognomen habent ea quae nominantur.  Illa vero ipsa dicimus nunquam velle mu(14)tuam inter se generationem suscipere.”  Et simul Cebetem intuitus inquit: “Num te quoque, Ce(15)bes, aliquid eorum quae nunc obiecta sunt perturbavit?” 
Socrates inclined his head to the speaker and listened.  I like your courage, he said, in reminding us of this. But you do not observe that there is a difference in the two cases.  For then we were speaking of opposites in the concrete, and now of the essential opposite which, as is affirmed, neither in us nor in nature can ever be at variance with itself:  then, my friend, we were speaking of things in which opposites are inherent and which are called after them, but now about the opposites which are inherent in them and which give their name to them;  and these essential opposites will never, as we maintain, admit of generation into or out of one another. 
οὐδ᾽ αὖ, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης, οὕτως ἔχω· καίτοι οὔτι λέγω ὡς οὐ πολλά με ταράττει. 
“Minime iterum” inquit Cebes “sic habeo; et tale quid dico quoniam non plurimum me turbat.” 
“Haud equidem”, inquit Cebes, (16) “ita sum affectus ac tibi affirmo non multum me turbari.” 
At the same time, turning to Cebes, he said: Are you at all disconcerted, Cebes, at our friend's objection? 
συνωμολογήκαμεν ἄρα, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, ἁπλῶς τοῦτο, μηδέποτε ἐναντίον ἑαυτῷ τὸ ἐναντίον ἔσεσθαι. 
“Una fassi sumus” infit ille “simpliciter hoc, numquam contrarium sibimet ipsi contrarium fore.” 
“Id ergo simpliciter”, inquit, “con(17)fessi sumus, contrarium nunquam sibimet fore contrarium.” 
No, I do not feel so, said Cebes; and yet I cannot deny that I am often disturbed by objections. 
παντάπασιν, ἔφη. 
“Penitus” inquit. 
“Omnino.” 
Then we are agreed after all, said Socrates, that the opposite will never in any case be opposed to itself? 
ἔτι δή μοι καὶ τόδε σκέψαι, ἔφη, εἰ ἄρα συνομολογήσεις.  θερμόν τι καλεῖς καὶ ψυχρόν; 
“Amplius autem michi et hoc eciam intuere” dixit, “utrum simul confiteberis:  fervidum quid nuncupas et algidum?” 
“Adverte praeterea (18) nunquid et in hoc mecum sentias.  Vocasne aliquid calorem atque frigus?” 
To that we are quite agreed, he replied.  Yet once more let me ask you to consider the question from another point of view, and see whether you agree with me: 
ἔγωγε. 
CEBES. “Ego sane.” 
“Voco equi(19)dem.” 
--There is a thing which you term heat, and another thing which you term cold? 
ἆρ᾽ ὅπερ χιόνα καὶ πῦρ; 
SOCRATES. “An quod nivem et ignem?” 
“Num tanquam nivem atque ignem?” 
Certainly. 
(103d) μὰ Δί᾽ οὐκ ἔγωγε. 
CEBES. “Per Iovem, non ego quidem.” 
“Non per Iovem.” 
But are they the same as fire and snow? 
ἀλλ᾽ ἕτερόν τι πυρὸς τὸ θερμὸν καὶ ἕτερόν τι χιόνος τὸ ψυχρόν; 
SOCRATES. “Atqui aliud quid ab igne calidum, et aliud a nive frigidum?” 
“An aliud quiddam ca(20)lorem esse quam ignem, et aliud frigus quam nivem?” 
Most assuredly not. 
ναί. 
CEBES. “Ne.” 
“Ita.” 
Heat is a thing different from fire, and cold is not the same with snow? 
ἀλλὰ τόδε γ᾽ οἶμαι δοκεῖ σοι, οὐδέποτε χιόνα γ᾽ οὖσαν δεξαμένην τὸ θερμόν, ὥσπερ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἐλέγομεν, ἔτι ἔσεσθαι ὅπερ ἦν, χιόνα καὶ θερμόν,  ἀλλὰ προσιόντος τοῦ θερμοῦ ἢ ὑπεκχωρήσειν αὐτῷ ἢ ἀπολεῖσθαι. 
SOCRATES. “Verum hoc equidem, rear, videtur tibi, numquam nivem existentem recipientem fervidum, ceu in prioribus diximus, adhuc fore quod erat, nivem et torrentem,  immo accedente calido vel cedere vel interire.” 
“Sed hoc quoque tibi videri puto, nivem (21) quandiu nix est nunquam suscepturam esse calorem, quemadmodum in superioribus di(22)cebamus. Ac esse nivem ut erat prius simulque calidam,  sed adventante calore aut subterfu(23)gere aut interire.” 
Yes.  And yet you will surely admit, that when snow, as was before said, is under the influence of heat, they will not remain snow and heat; 
πάνυ γε. 
CEBES. “Prorsus.” 
“Penitus.” 
but at the advance of the heat, the snow will either retire or perish? 
καὶ τὸ πῦρ γε αὖ προσιόντος τοῦ ψυχροῦ αὐτῷ ἢ ὑπεξιέναι ἢ ἀπολεῖσθαι, οὐ μέντοι ποτὲ τολμήσειν δεξάμενον τὴν ψυχρότητα ἔτι εἶναι ὅπερ ἦν, πῦρ καὶ ψυχρόν. 
SOCRATES. “Et ignem utique accedente gelido ipsi seu migrare sive perire, non enim umquam audebit, recipiens algorem, adhuc esse quod fuit, ignis et frigidum.” 
“Similiter et ignem subintrante frigore aut superfluere aut (24) extingui, nec unquam posse et suscipere frigus, et simul esse ignem sicut prius erat et fri(25)gidum.” 
Very true, he replied. 
(103e) ἀληθῆ, ἔφη, λέγεις. 
“Vera” inquit “ais.” 
“Vera narras.” 
And the fire too at the advance of the cold will either retire or perish; and when the fire is under the influence of the cold, they will not remain as before, fire and cold. 
ἔστιν ἄρα, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, περὶ ἔνια τῶν τοιούτων, ὥστε μὴ μόνον αὐτὸ τὸ εἶδος ἀξιοῦσθαι τοῦ αὑτοῦ ὀνόματος εἰς τὸν ἀεὶ χρόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄλλο τι ὃ ἔστι μὲν οὐκ ἐκεῖνο, ἔχει δὲ τὴν ἐκείνου μορφὴν ἀεί, ὅτανπερ ᾖ.  ἔτι δὲ ἐν τῷδε ἴσως ἔσται σαφέστερον ὃ λέγω·  τὸ γὰρ περιττὸν ἀεί που δεῖ τούτου τοῦ ὀνόματος τυγχάνειν ὅπερ νῦν λέγομεν· ἢ οὔ; 
“Est igitur” infit ille “circa quedam talium, quatinus non solum ipsa species exigat idem nomen in eternum tempus, immo et aliud quid quod est quidem non illud, habet autem illius formam semper, quamdiu fuerit.  Amplius certe in istis fors erit cercius quod dico;  quoniam impar semper competit hoc nomine censeri quod nunc dicimus; necne?” 
“Sunt igitur quaedam eiusmodi ut non solum speciem ipsam nomi(26)ne suo dignentur per omne tempus, sed et aliud quiddam quod quidem non est primum (27) illud, habet vero quandiu est illius formam.  In hoc rursus tibi quod volo forte manifestius (28) erit.  Impar enim semper oportet nomen id quod nunc dicimus possidere. Nonne?” 
That is true, he said.  And in some cases the name of the idea is not only attached to the idea in an eternal connection, but anything else which, not being the idea, exists only in the form of the idea, may also lay claim to it.  I will try to make this clearer by an example:--The odd number is always called by the name of odd? 
πάνυ γε. 
CEBES. “Funditus sane.” 
“Opor(29)tet sane.” 
Very true. 
ἆρα μόνον τῶν ὄντων--τοῦτο γὰρ ἐρωτῶ--ἢ καὶ ἄλλο (104a) τι ὃ ἔστι μὲν οὐχ ὅπερ τὸ περιττόν,  ὅμως δὲ δεῖ αὐτὸ μετὰ τοῦ ἑαυτοῦ ὀνόματος καὶ τοῦτο καλεῖν ἀεὶ διὰ τὸ οὕτω πεφυκέναι ὥστε τοῦ περιττοῦ μηδέποτε ἀπολείπεσθαι;  λέγω δὲ αὐτὸ εἶναι οἷον καὶ ἡ τριὰς πέπονθε καὶ ἄλλα πολλά.  σκόπει δὲ περὶ τῆς τριάδος.  ἆρα οὐ δοκεῖ σοι τῷ τε αὑτῆς ὀνόματι ἀεὶ προσαγορευτέα εἶναι καὶ τῷ τοῦ περιττοῦ, ὄντος οὐχ ὅπερ τῆς τριάδος;  ἀλλ᾽ ὅμως οὕτως πέφυκε καὶ ἡ τριὰς καὶ ἡ πεμπτὰς καὶ ὁ ἥμισυς τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ ἅπας, ὥστε (104b) οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ περιττὸν ἀεὶ ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἐστι περιττός·  καὶ αὖ τὰ δύο καὶ [τὰ] τέτταρα καὶ ἅπας ὁ ἕτερος αὖ στίχος τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ ἄρτιον ὅμως ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἄρτιός ἐστιν ἀεί·  συγχωρεῖς ἢ οὔ; 
SOCRATES. “Igitur solum eorum que sunt - hoc enim quero - sive eciam aliud quid quod est eciam non quod impar,  tamen oportet ipsum cum eadem appellacione et hoc vocare semper eo quod sic e natura sit uti ab impare numquam absit?  Dico vero ipsum esse quemadmodum ternarius passus est et alia multa.  Attende vero et de ternario:  itaque nonne videtur tibi sui vocabulo semper appellandus esse atque imparis, existentis non quod quidem ternarius?  Verumptamen ita natum fuisse et ternarius et quinarius et dimidius numeri omnis, quare cum non sit quod impar, semper quisque eorum est impar;  et item duo atque quatuor et universus alter item versus numeri, cum non sit quod par, tamen quisque eorum par est semper;  concedis necne?” 
“Num id solum ex omnibus? Hoc enim quaero: an aliud quiddam quod qui((30)dem est non idipsum impar,  attamen hoc oportet una cum suo nomine, hoc insuper nomi(31)ne alio semper appellari, propterea quod ita natura sit institutum ut nunquam ab impari (32) deseratur?  Dico autem hoc effectum esse ceu ternarium aliaque permulta.  Considera vero (33) de ternario.  An non tibi videtur hunc et suijpsius nomine semper nuncupandum esse et (34) simul nomine imparis? Quod quidem impar non idem est quod est ternarius.  Verunta(35)men ita natura comparatus est, et ternarius et quinarius et omnis medietas numeri, ut (36) quanvis non idem sit quod impar, semper tamen eorum quivis sit impar.  Praeterea duo et (37) quatuor, omnisque alter numeri ordo quanvis idem quod par non sit, simul tamen quilibet (38) illorum par semper existit.  Concedis necne?” 
But is this the only thing which is called odd?  Are there not other things which have their own name, and yet are called odd, because, although not the same as oddness, they are never without oddness?  --that is what I mean to ask--whether numbers such as the number three are not of the class of odd.  And there are many other examples:  would you not say, for example, that three may be called by its proper name, and also be called odd, which is not the same with three?  and this may be said not only of three but also of five, and of every alternate number--each of them without being oddness is odd,  and in the same way two and four, and the other series of alternate numbers, has every number even, without being evenness.  Do you agree? 
πῶς γὰρ οὔκ; ἔφη. 
“Qui enim minime?” ait, 
“Quidni?” 
Of course. 
ὃ τοίνυν, ἔφη, βούλομαι δηλῶσαι, ἄθρει.  ἔστιν δὲ τόδε, ὅτι φαίνεται οὐ μόνον ἐκεῖνα τὰ ἐναντία ἄλληλα οὐ δεχόμενα,  ἀλλὰ καὶ ὅσα οὐκ ὄντ᾽ ἀλλήλοις ἐναντία ἔχει ἀεὶ τἀναντία,  οὐδὲ ταῦτα ἔοικε δεχομένοις ἐκείνην τὴν ἰδέαν ἣ ἂν τῇ ἐν αὐτοῖς οὔσῃ ἐναντία ᾖ, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπιούσης αὐτῆς ἤτοι (104c) ἀπολλύμενα ἢ ὑπεκχωροῦντα.  ἢ οὐ φήσομεν τὰ τρία καὶ ἀπολεῖσθαι πρότερον καὶ ἄλλο ὁτιοῦν πείσεσθαι, πρὶν ὑπομεῖναι ἔτι τρία ὄντα ἄρτια γενέσθαι; 
“Quod igitur” infit “volo declarare, considera.  Est quidem hoc eciam, quod apparet non solum illa adversancia se invieem non recipiencia,  immo eciam quecumque, cum non sint sibi invicem adversancia,  habent semper adversancia, neque ista assimilatur recipientibus illam ydeam que utique ei que in ipsa est contraria fuerit, atqui adveniente ipsa sive interire sive abscedere.  At nonne dicemus tria et deperire prius et aliud quodlibet pati, prius quam sustineant adhuc tria cum sint paria fieri?” 
“Contemplare ergo quid velim.  (39) Est autem eiusmodi: videntur quidem non solum ipsa inter se contraria sese invicem non (40) recipere,  verumetiam quaecunque talia sunt, ut licet contraria inter se non sint,  semper ta(41)men contraria possideant, nunquam recipere speciem illam quae ipsi speciei quam in se ha(42)bent contraria sit, sed hac adveniente aut perire protinus aut abire.  An non dicimus tria(43) et deficere et aliud quodvis pati prius, quam sustinere ut quatenus tria sunt paria fiant?” 
Then now mark the point at which I am aiming:  --not only do essential opposites exclude one another,  but also concrete things, which, although not in themselves opposed, contain opposites;  these, I say, likewise reject the idea which is opposed to that which is contained in them, and when it approaches them they either perish or withdraw.  For example; Will not the number three endure annihilation or anything sooner than be converted into an even number, while remaining three? 
πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης. 
“Prorsus namque” inquit Cebes. 
(44) “Ita prorsus.” 
Very true, said Cebes. 
οὐδὲ μήν, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, ἐναντίον γέ ἐστι δυὰς τριάδι. 
“Neque nobis” ait is “contrarium est binarius ternario.” 
“Non tamen contraria est duitas trinitati.” 
And yet, he said, the number two is certainly not opposed to the number three? 
οὐ γὰρ οὖν. 
CEBES. “Non certe.” 
“Non certe.” 
It is not. 
οὐκ ἄρα μόνον τὰ εἴδη τὰ ἐναντία οὐχ ὑπομένει ἐπιόντα ἄλληλα, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄλλ᾽ ἄττα τὰ ἐναντία οὐχ ὑπομένει ἐπιόντα. 
SOCRATES. “Non igitur solummodo species contrarie non sustinent superveniencia se ad invicem, verum et alia quedam contraria non suscipiunt.” 
“Non solum er(45)go species ipsae contrariae nunquam invicem se recipiunt, sed etiam alia quaedam contra(46)riorum ingressum mutuum non suscipiunt.” 
Then not only do opposite ideas repel the advance of one another, but also there are other natures which repel the approach of opposites. 
ἀληθέστατα, ἔφη, λέγεις. 
“Verissima” infit “ais.” 
“Verissima narras.” 
Very true, he said. 
βούλει οὖν, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς, ἐὰν οἷοί τ᾽ ὦμεν, ὁρισώμεθα ὁποῖα ταῦτά ἐστιν; 
“Vis igitur” inquit, “si quiverimus, diffiniamus qualia ista sint?” 
“Visne igitur haec si (47) possumus qualia sint definiamus?” 
Suppose, he said, that we endeavour, if possible, to determine what these are. 
πάνυ γε. 
CEBES. “Funditus.” 
“Volo equidem.” 
By all means. 
(104d) ἆρ᾽ οὖν, ἔφη, ὦ Κέβης, τάδε εἴη ἄν, ἃ ὅτι ἂν κατάσχῃ μὴ μόνον ἀναγκάζει τὴν αὑτοῦ ἰδέαν αὐτὸ ἴσχειν, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐναντίου αὐτῷ ἀεί τινος; 
SOCRATES. “Ergo igitur” infit, “O Cebes, hec sunt utique que quodcumque detineat non solum compellit eiusdem ydeam ipsis habere, sed et contrarii semper alicuius ipsi?” 
“An non, Cebes, haec erunt quae quod(48)cunque occupant tale reddunt, ut non solum suijpsius ideam retinere cogatur, sed etiam con(49)trario illi sit opus?” 
Are they not, Cebes, such as compel the things of which they have possession, not only to take their own form, but also the form of some opposite? 
πῶς λέγεις; 
CEBES. “Qui dicis?” 
“Quonam pacto dicis?” 
What do you mean? 
ὥσπερ ἄρτι ἐλέγομεν.  οἶσθα γὰρ δήπου ὅτι ἃ ἂν ἡ τῶν τριῶν ἰδέα κατάσχῃ, ἀνάγκη αὐτοῖς οὐ μόνον τρισὶν εἶναι ἀλλὰ καὶ περιττοῖς. 
SOCRATES. “Veluti modo diximus.  Nosti enim vero quecumque trium ydea continuerit, necesse imparia.” 
“Quemadmodum paulo ante dicebamus.  Scis (50) enim quae trium continetur idea, oportere non solum tria, sed etiam imparia esse.” 
I mean, as I was just now saying,  and as I am sure that you know, that those things which are possessed by the number three must not only be three in number, but must also be odd. 
πάνυ γε. 
CEBES. “Omnino.” 
“Certe.” 
Quite true. 
ἐπὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον δή, φαμέν, ἡ ἐναντία ἰδέα ἐκείνῃ τῇ μορφῇ ἣ ἂν τοῦτο ἀπεργάζηται οὐδέποτ᾽ ἂν ἔλθοι. 
SOCRATES. “In huiusmodi quoque, dicimus, contraria ydea illi forme, qua nempe hoc efficitur numquam utique veniet.” 
“Ad hoc (51) tale utique dicebamus ideam contrariam formae illi quae id perficit nunquam accedere.” 
And on this oddness, of which the number three has the impress, the opposite idea will never intrude? 
οὐ γάρ. 
CEBES. “Non etenim.” 
“Nunquam.” 
No. 
εἰργάζετο δέ γε ἡ περιττή; 
SOCRATES. “Effecta est autem impar.” 
(52) “Perfecit autem imparis ideam.” 
And this impress was given by the odd principle? 
ναί. 
CEBES. “Ne.” 
“Haec ipsa.” 
Yes. 
ἐναντία δὲ ταύτῃ ἡ τοῦ ἀρτίου; 
SOCRATES. “Contraria autem ipsi ea que paris.” 
“Contraria vero huic paris idea.” 
And to the odd is opposed the even? 
ναί. 
CEBES. “Ne.” 
“Ita est.” 
True. 
(104e) ἐπὶ τὰ τρία ἄρα ἡ τοῦ ἀρτίου ἰδέα οὐδέποτε ἥξει. 
SOCRATES. “In tria utique paris ydea numquam veniet.” 
(53) “Ergo ternario numero idea paris se nunquam insinuabit.” 
Then the idea of the even number will never arrive at three? 
οὐ δῆτα. 
CEBES. “Neutiquam.” 
“Nunquam.” 
No. 
ἄμοιρα δὴ τοῦ ἀρτίου τὰ τρία. 
SOCRATES. “Exorcia igitur paris tria.” 
“Quapropter (54) ternarius numerus paris est expers.” 
Then three has no part in the even? 
ἄμοιρα. 
CEBES. “Exorcia.” 
“Expers.” 
None. 
ἀνάρτιος ἄρα ἡ τριάς. 
SOCRATES. “Impar ergo ternarius.” 
“Trinitas ergo est necessario impar.” 
Then the triad or number three is uneven? 
ναί. 
CEBES. “Ne.” 
“Est.” 
Very true. 
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